NEW Immortals Handbook - Ascension thread

I think you read the wrong column of table 4-1. He would be able to get an artifact worth 8 Feats.

Oups forget it, now it make sense... so he will need to be at least ECL 72 to take is first Cosmic Ability from is artefact, sound correct...

Hiya mate!

Fieari said:

By the way, it came up in the Alabaster game that Metamartial manuevers were banned. This was because the DCs for all the effects is equal to the attack roll, and at higher levels, this makes the saves completely impossible to make. They have a point...

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Yes, in trying to actually reduce the DCs I can see how I may have inadvertantly made things worse...bloody epic saving throws.

I may have to rethink the DC formula for Metamartial Rules.

Fieari said:

And the chart for "Perfect Weapon Focus" says that it makes epic BAB follow pre-epic BAB instead, but the actual text for it does no such thing.

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Noted...thanks.

Hey Pssthpok dude!

Pssthpok said:

You can cleave a single opponent more than once in a round, UK.

For example, imagine - just using Cleave and Great Cleave - that I am fighting 3 people and they are surrounding me (just to take movement out of the example). I attack and kill person number 1, so I cleave Person 3. I then attack and kill person number 2, so I cleave number three again. I don't think there is anything wrong with that, nor is there anything in the rules that states otherwise.

Under the RAW and using Perfect Cleave, one can get an nearly infinite number of attacks if they have a good enough threat range. I suggest a revision:

Perfect Cleave
Prereqs: Cleave, Great Cleave, Str 35, Superior Cleave
Bennies: When you kill an opponent, you can transfer any excess damage to any target that would normally qualify for a cleave attack; if this damage kills the target, you can continue to transfer any excess damage. One you have exhausted all excess damage, you may then cleave as usual.

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Surely you can only cleave the same person once with a single attack?

If not, as you say, a few things may need a rethink.

Xzoltar said:

Oups forget it, now it make sense... so he will need to be at least ECL 72 to take is first Cosmic Ability from is artefact, sound correct...

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Correct.


EDIT: Also, UK: Why are Good Deities immune to disease, and why do deities with double Good Portfolios gain Poisonous Blood as Prophets?

Upper_Krust said:

Surely you can only cleave the same person once with a single attack?

If not, as you say, a few things may need a rethink.

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Pssthpok is correct, actually. Nothing in the rules restricts you to one Cleave attack on a particular foe, and it is possible to get multiple Cleave attacks on one opponent even with just Great Cleave. Since, making a Full Attack, you are allowed to use those attacks on multiple foes if you wish, you can attack enemy A- dropping it- and Cleave to enemy B, then (with your first iterative attack) attack enemy C- dropping it- and Cleave to hit enemy B again. The situations allowing this sort of thing would be exceptionally rare- I've never had a situation like it come up in my games once in six years- but they are conceivable. Consider a goblin general flanked by a pair of lackeys, and a 10th-level Fighter in melee with all three (by being directly in front of the general). It would be pretty easy for that Fighter to Power Attack right through the right lackey, Cleave to the general, and then use his second attack to go through the left lackey (same Power Attack number, remember) and then Cleave to the general again.

The text for Cleave carries exactly three restrictions; first, you can only get the extra attack when you "drop" an enemy (typically by reducing it to 0 hit points or less), second, the target of your Cleave attack must be within your threatened area (you can't move), and third, you can only do it once per round. Great Cleave simply removes the third restriction, allowing you to do it as many times per round as you can trigger the ability. Nowhere in either feat does it restrict you to getting only one Cleave attack on a particular opponent.

Of course, it's still easier for the Fighter to hang back and let the Wizard toast all three of them, plus their five allies and the two worgs they brought along for tracking, with a single Fireball, but that's probably why the multiple-Cleave doesn't look too bad in the base rules. With your Perfect Cleave, though, it does start to look slightly ridiculous.

EDIT: Oops, just realized I rehashed what Pssthpok said, with my example! Sorry about that. But I guess it goes to show, it bears repeating?

Thanks for the backup, paradox.

So, UK... what to do about Perfect Cleave?

Upper_Krust said:

I may have to rethink the DC formula for Metamartial Rules.

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10+1/2 BaB+[Stat] modifier should work fine. I realise you don't like the 10+half+modifier method, but it's the standard and is better than the current system.

UK,

What do you think a good price adjustment would be for a weapon special ability transformed all slashing/peircing/bludgeoning damage dealt by the weapon into permanent hit point damage?

Under the base assumption metamartial feats are not used in the game (if that would influence how you esitmate the cost): What do you think a good price adjustment would be for a weapon special ability that allow you to make a single attack attack at your highest attack bonus as swift action? What cost as a free action once per round? What cost as an immediate action?



EDIT: Also noticed Superior Power Attack (Divine) lists Improved Power Attack as a Prerequisite, but there is no such feat listed in the Feats section.

I'm not the Krust, but I think the permanent damage quality would be between +25 and +36.