Help me build a Shadowlord

AbeTheGnome · Feb 5, 2007

What's the best build for a Telflammar Shadowlord? I've got eight levels to work with, and I want to exploit Shadow Pounce/Shadow Jump/Sneak Attack for all it's worth.

Nifft · Feb 5, 2007

Try here.

Cheers, -- N

Sithobi1 · Feb 6, 2007

You can't even get Shadow Pounce by level 8.

RigaMortus2 · Feb 6, 2007

Make sure you take classes that have full BAB to take advantage of the full attack. use Martial Lore feat from Bo9S and make sure you pick up Shadow Jaunt, Shadow Stride and Shadow Blink. Then you can teleport 3 times in the round, getting a full attack on each one. Fighter would be a good class as they can use their bonus feats to pick up Martial Lore.

AbeTheGnome · Feb 6, 2007

RigaMortus2 said:
use Martial Lore feat from Bo9S and make sure you pick up Shadow Jaunt, Shadow Stride and Shadow Blink. Then you can teleport 3 times in the round, getting a full attack on each one.

Keep in mind that I'm building a playable character, here, not one that any DM in his right mind is going to nerf: that probably means only one full attack per round, no matter what the loopholes in the rules.

May be one that can port, attack, and port away would be more likely to sneak under the radar. Anyone know of a way to do this?

PS... Thanks for the link, Nifft.

RigaMortus2 · Feb 6, 2007

AbeTheGnome said:
Keep in mind that I'm building a playable character, here, not one that any DM in his right mind is going to nerf: that probably means only one full attack per round, no matter what the loopholes in the rules.

May be one that can port, attack, and port away would be more likely to sneak under the radar. Anyone know of a way to do this?

PS... Thanks for the link, Nifft.

There are no "loopholes", it is all legit... As long as you have the feats (which, you should), you can take the 3 shadow jumping maneuvers and get a full attack off of each one. You did ask for advice on the "best build" for a Telflammar Shadowlord, didn't you?

AbeTheGnome · Feb 6, 2007

Sithobi1 said:
You can't even get Shadow Pounce by level 8.

Perhaps I should clarify: I want to optimize my character build for when I do have access to Shadow Pounce.

AbeTheGnome · Feb 6, 2007

RigaMortus2 said:
There are no "loopholes", it is all legit... As long as you have the feats (which, you should), you can take the 3 shadow jumping maneuvers and get a full attack off of each one. You did ask for advice on the "best build" for a Telflammar Shadowlord, didn't you?

Loopholes are legit. That's why they're called loopholes instead of cheating. Personally, I don't think that the folks that wrote the Shadowlord prestige class intended the Shadow Pounce ability to be able to produce more than one full attack. Because the text of the ability is poorly worded, it's a powergamer's wet dream. The ability has seen much debate on how best to optimize and exploit it. This is fine and dandy. If your DM follows the rules to the letter, he'll allow it. Otherwise, he'll say, "That's obviously not how this ability was intended to work," and he'll nerf it, because it's insanely powerful. I think it's a cool ability with only one full attack.

The thing I really want to do with this is be able to slide in, strike with one uber sneak attack, and slide back out (out of harm's way). Will spring attack work in conjunction with Shadow Pounce?

RigaMortus2 · Feb 6, 2007

AbeTheGnome said:
Loopholes are legit. That's why they're called loopholes instead of cheating. Personally, I don't think that the folks that wrote the Shadowlord prestige class intended the Shadow Pounce ability to be able to produce more than one full attack. Because the text of the ability is poorly worded, it's a powergamer's wet dream. The ability has seen much debate on how best to optimize and exploit it. This is fine and dandy. If your DM follows the rules to the letter, he'll allow it. Otherwise, he'll say, "That's obviously not how this ability was intended to work," and he'll nerf it, because it's insanely powerful. I think it's a cool ability with only one full attack.

Based off your initial post, how are we supposed to how your DM is playing Shadow Pounce? If he is going to make up his own house rules on how it works, and if it has limits, we kinda need to know that. You asked for the "best build" and I gave you one idea.

If your DM nerfs it, then the combo will still work. Use Shadow Stride or Shadow Jaunt to "jump" to an opponent (one is a Move action, the other is a Standard, I forget which is which), get your full attack, and then Shadow Blink (swift action) to safety.

You could also try to dip into Shadowdancer or aquire Hide in Plain Sight. Then Shadow Stride/Jaunt/Blink to an opponent, and after the attack Hide in Plain Sight

AbeTheGnome said:
The thing I really want to do with this is be able to slide in, strike with one uber sneak attack, and slide back out (out of harm's way). Will spring attack work in conjunction with Shadow Pounce?

I don't think they are related. Shadow Pounce triggers off of a "dimension door" effect when you instantly appear next to someone. Spring Attack is a special action that lets you move, attack, move. Why would you Spring Attack if you could just instantly "dimension door" next to someone? The specific "dimension door" ability is what is important when determining if you can Spring Attack with it. You have to look at the wording, but none of the ones I know about would work with a Spring Attack.

AbeTheGnome · Feb 6, 2007

RigaMortus2 said:
Based off your initial post, how are we supposed to how your DM is playing Shadow Pounce? If he is going to make up his own house rules on how it works, and if it has limits, we kinda need to know that. You asked for the "best build" and I gave you one idea.

Apologies. Honestly, I don't know how my DM is going to rule on this, or even if he'll allow it. I just know what I would do if I were ruling: I would nerf it. Since I looked at Nifft's link, I realize how extremely exploitable this ability is, and I don't want to bring that to a game.

I appreciate your idea, and it's one of the best I've heard yet. I may go with it (if I ever get around to buying ToB), or I may go with a straight Rogue/Guild Thief/Assassin Build. Heck, I may even go with the Warlock build, though it's a little too arcane for what I had in mind. Thanks for the suggestions, anyway.