Scorching Ray Build
Rystil Arden
First Post
Unfortunately, I believe that the broken way is the correct way as intended by the author, and I think that's how it is clarified so far by unofficial WoTC sources. Thus, I won't fault the original build for choosing the broken interpretation of Arcane Thesis.KarinsDad said:
SlagMortar
First Post
The build has two feats at first level so I think it's human. Inherent bonuses are expensive. A +1 costs 27500 which is over 25% of the character's wealth at 12th level.
Also, your baseline is a 26 point buy. I did make a mistake though in my proposed stats. They were only a 23 point buy. A correct 25 point buy would be:
Str 8, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 17, Wis 8, Cha 8
so I now see Con is not really lower than normal for a wizard.
Toads in 3.5 give +3 hitpoints instead of +2 Con. It was +2 Con in 3.0.
I agree 12 dex is not automatic, but I don't think it would be uncommon.
Rystil Arden said:
Be that as it may, the original author is broken.
Allowing the equivalent of 15th level spells in 8th level slots is broken. Even the more potent Sudden Metamagic feats are fairly broken, but at least one can only use a Sudden Metamagic feat for one specific metamagic effect and it can only be used once per day.
As an example:
Arcane Thesis (-1 per metamagic feat added version) Maximize Empower Cone of Cold = Level 8
Maximize Sudden Empower Cone of Cold = Level 8
Both are level 8 and do the same effect, but the first effect can be done over and over again whereas the second is once per day. Plus, Arcane Thesis can be applied to many different metamagic effects. The only difference here is that the first one requires 3 feats to the second one's 2 feats, but the balance here can be seen by taking the Sudden Empowered feat twice (i.e. twice per day for 3 feats versus many times per day for 3 feats, and yes I know, most people take Sudden Maximize as opposed to Sudden Empower, but this is just an example).
WotC balanced out Metamagic Rods and Sudden Metamagic feats by limiting the number of times per day they can be used.
Arcane Thesis with the original author's intent is not limited, hence, by definition it is broken.
MyLuckyDice
First Post
Arcane Thesis wouldn't be so broken if it couldn't bring the spell level below an adjustment of 1, but meh...
As I said originally, the first build is pretty much a one trick pony. You cast scorching ray fairly well but you've sacked so many schools and have to prepare so many rays that you don't have much in the way of buffing spells available on a daily basis. Shield, Dragonskin (SC), Heart of Earth (CM), Mirror Image, Protection from _____, are all still options, but you'd be lacking mage armor and its ilk. If you are limited in spell selection sources the loss of schools is more drastic, but if your DM is letting you swing a persistent spell-toting incantatrix he'll probably let you go for the spell compendium.
I agree the ranged touch attacks are not sure things, but they are more likely to suceed than an opponent is to fail a reflex save versus typical evocation spells. I find it pretty hard to make spells very difficult to resist in 3.5, which - all things considered - isn't really a bad thing. I like the idea of an evoker I just can't convince myself to play one when most of your spell effects can be reduced to half by a passed save. When saves are failed, its nice, but nothing as spectacular as a save vs death, polymorph, or dominate from other schools. The abundance of HP monsters have makes it difficult for me to decide.
When I get home I'll attempt another ray build, I've got a couple ideas that make for some more versatility.
As I said originally, the first build is pretty much a one trick pony. You cast scorching ray fairly well but you've sacked so many schools and have to prepare so many rays that you don't have much in the way of buffing spells available on a daily basis. Shield, Dragonskin (SC), Heart of Earth (CM), Mirror Image, Protection from _____, are all still options, but you'd be lacking mage armor and its ilk. If you are limited in spell selection sources the loss of schools is more drastic, but if your DM is letting you swing a persistent spell-toting incantatrix he'll probably let you go for the spell compendium.
I agree the ranged touch attacks are not sure things, but they are more likely to suceed than an opponent is to fail a reflex save versus typical evocation spells. I find it pretty hard to make spells very difficult to resist in 3.5, which - all things considered - isn't really a bad thing. I like the idea of an evoker I just can't convince myself to play one when most of your spell effects can be reduced to half by a passed save. When saves are failed, its nice, but nothing as spectacular as a save vs death, polymorph, or dominate from other schools. The abundance of HP monsters have makes it difficult for me to decide.
When I get home I'll attempt another ray build, I've got a couple ideas that make for some more versatility.
Rystil Arden
First Post
As I said earlier in my first post in this thread, I fully and completely agree with you that it's broken. What I'm saying is blame the author, but don't blame the guy who uses the broken interpretation when it is the official interpretation. If I allowed it in my game instead of banning it? I'd definitely houserule it to -1 overall, not per feat--it would be much cleaner at that point.KarinsDad said:Be that as it may, the original author is broken.
Allowing the equivalent of 15th level spells in 8th level slots is broken. Even the more potent Sudden Metamagic feats are fairly broken, but at least one can only use a Sudden Metamagic feat for one specific metamagic effect and it can only be used once per day.
As an example:
Arcane Thesis (-1 per metamagic feat added version) Maximize Empower Cone of Cold = Level 8
Maximize Sudden Empower Cone of Cold = Level 8
Both are level 8 and do the same effect, but the first effect can be done over and over again whereas the second is once per day. Plus, Arcane Thesis can be applied to many different metamagic effects. The only difference here is that the first one requires 3 feats to the second one's 2 feats, but the balance here can be seen by taking the Sudden Empowered feat twice (i.e. twice per day for 3 feats versus many times per day for 3 feats, and yes I know, most people take Sudden Maximize as opposed to Sudden Empower, but this is just an example).
WotC balanced out Metamagic Rods and Sudden Metamagic feats by limiting the number of times per day they can be used.
Arcane Thesis with the original author's intent is not limited, hence, by definition it is broken.
Rystil Arden
First Post
I completely agree.KarinsDad said:
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