Dread Necromancer in my game?

I need a few opinions. I've a player who wants to play a Dread Necromancer (the class is included in WOTC's Heroes of Horror), and as much as I think the class is very, very cool, I can't help but think it smacks more of being an NPC class than a PC class. Obviously, none of this is written in stone anywhere, but that's just the vibe it gives out.

There's some info, but no real mechanics, on this page on the Wizards site.

There are three reasons I think it's a nice idea:

1) it's an Eberron campaign, and the PC could come from Karrnath, having been involved in the creation of their undead armies in the Last War. (This would fit really nicely with the campaign, actually...)

2) there's quite a lot of undead goings-on in the campaign, and while the Dread Necromancer's most offensive abilities would actually heal the bad guys, the ability to rebuke undead and cast certain necromancy spells would come in handy when fighting them – and the non-undead adversaries, too!

3) I do think it's a really fun class

This is the problem, really. The 'fun fun fun!' part of me wants to say, "Sure! Go ahead! Anything goes!" The more cautious, level-headed DM in me wants to make sure the PC isn't too imbalanced against the others players.

I really don't know which way to jump. Has anyone got any thoughts?

If balance is your concern, don't even worry about it. It's a fine class.

As fate would have it my wife's character in the Eberron campaign I began January 1st is a Dread Necromancer. She originally wanted to play it a campaign ago, but I specifically told her to hold off till Eberron, because it would fit more easily.

I was right, and she's having a great time. She has a few undead to help her through combats, the story elements of the powers have given her much to work with roleplaying-wise. And yes, the undead that work their way into every Eberron adventure I'm running means she's always useful to the group. It works great, I can easily recommend it.

Be aware that my players and I are heavily experienced with the rules and savvy to play quick, so my wife has the full bead on which turning/rebuking/commanding and related stuff takes either free actions, swift actions, move actions, etc. based on her class and choice of feats. Make sure you are aware of how these work because it's a big part of the class!

EDITED THOUGHT: So I don't cause a thread hijack, Dawn has a ton of little story vignettes about her character fitting into Eberron and growing up with the power of the Dread Necromancer class. Would there be any interest in these and if so where would I post them? Thanks! /edit

-DM Jeff

I've a friend who's played two dread necromancers, and they both worked out just fine. Oddly during both times, I was playing a cleric with a lot of undead killing power. Still, as long as you coordinate right, even that mix can work. Her characters would very courteously ask other characters if they minded being animated if they happened to die, they never hinted that they would animate friends without permission, and I even managed to be able to work around her undead when trying to turn. All in all, good stuff. She never overpowered the rest of the party, either. The only difficulty was that she would sometimes have to come up with a lot of stats for her summoned and controlled undead, and the paperwork got long.

MonkeyDragon said:

The only difficulty was that she would sometimes have to come up with a lot of stats for her summoned and controlled undead, and the paperwork got long.

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Heh heh, as standard fare, I print up TWO copies of all the undead foes, so when she invariably takes control of one, I can just hand her the stats and the game keeps going. Ah, the things you learn to adapt to!

-DM Jeff

Falldog said:

This is the problem, really. The 'fun fun fun!' part of me wants to say, "Sure! Go ahead! Anything goes!" The more cautious, level-headed DM in me wants to make sure the PC isn't too imbalanced against the others players.

I really don't know which way to jump. Has anyone got any thoughts?

Click to expand...

Dread Necromancer is a perfectly balanced class, and tons of fun to play. At later levels, he'll be able to animate entire armies of skeletons and zombies, though the XP cost on better undead will make it problematic.

I would potentially watch out for some interactions with Libris Mortis. The "Tomb-Tainted Soul" feat allows negative energy to heal you, and positive energy to harm you, even if you aren't undead. This helps the Dread Necromancer become more self-sufficient, but it means the party cleric won't be able to save him if he gets into a tight spot. It's not necessarily unbalanced, but keep an eye on it.

The other concern is the Corpsecrafter feats, which lets you give your animted undead all kinds of little perks. I've heard this can be unbalancing.

Some things to watch out for:
Once he gets Animate Dead at 8th, your Dread Necromancer will attempt to animate nearly every monster you throw at the party. Plan accordingly.

A Dread Necromancer that selects a Dread Visage familiar is immune to mind-affecting spells while it's merged with him. This would be more of an issue if the class didn't have a good Will save.

Remember that the Command Undead spell doesn't give a saving throw to mindless undead; (Karrnathi skeletons/zombies are -not- mindless) you can create some nasty encounters for a Dread Necromancer who relies on animating undead too much with a Chained Command Undead. Conversely, don't be surprised when your BBEG's skeletal hydra turns on him, since Dread Necromancers have Command Undead on their spell list.

Even though a Dread Necromancer gets rebuke attempts, his magic is arcane, and therefore the Divine Metamagic feat cannot (thankfully) be used. Feats that just require the character to be able to rebuke undead can be used, and aren't a huge issue.

Issues I forsee

1. Ray of enfeeblement over and over and over can get annoying. Players won't mind until the NPC Dread Necroes do it back to them..

2. Summons that attack ability score with touch attacks. Shadows are nasty, thankfully allips damage thier summoners wisdom if any control is exersized beyond the initial summoning.

3. How much control one has over undead. Spawning undead and how that works for rebuking.

I've played a Dread necromancer WITH Tomb-Tainted Soul, and it was not an issue. It meant I handled my own healing, and the Cleric didnt have to waste his turns on me.

I also took Arcane Disciple: Destruction and got some inflicts to cast on me, and on my minions.

Thanks all for your responses. After the player and I took a closer look at the character last night, we saw lots of little checks and balances which help to reign in the class's power, so - thanks to your wise words, too - I'm happy for him to go ahead and play it.

DM_Jeff, I'd love to hear Dawn's experiences with the character. I don't suppose anyone would mind if they were appended to this thread...

Falldog said:

DM_Jeff, I'd love to hear Dawn's experiences with the character. I don't suppose anyone would mind if they were appended to this thread...

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Here's some in media res. The situation: Grace is a necromancer from Cyre who discovered her inherited powers very young (she spent the last 5-6 years in Stormreach). She's currently a student at Morgrave University in Sharn. Thiose familiar with the city will also know of a place there called the Nightshade which offers a tavern experience for those involved in necromantic dealings. Here's a snippet, if you like, there's more where this came from

Grace bowed her head, turning away from the pale faces and back to the bartender. His arms were still folded, but his brows were separating into two again as his scowl lessened by slow degrees. Grace leaned forward, “I need to begin a club or something… There just has to be more people like me. I can’t be the only person in all Khorvare that wants to use necromancy for good. I just can’t believe that…. Do you think I’m the only one…?”
The lines in the bartender’s faces faded in confusion, but he was spared from answering by someone taking the stool next to Grace.
She turned her head too quickly to see who it was and closed her eyes when it felt like the insides of her head took too long to catch up to her eyes. She opened them and found a young man sitting next to her. He gave her a small smile and she tried to place his face, he looked a little familiar.
“I’m Drason Grenier. I’m in your Embalming class…” he looked to the bartender who had leaned back on the far counter and was watching the two of them. “I’ll have what she’s having.”
Grace blinked to focus and looked over the young fellow. He was dressed in the common student style; leggings, low boots and a tunic. He wore a dark vest over everything with pins down both lapels. They were national and city crests, some of them she didn’t recognize and she leaned closer.
Drason blushed under her gaze, but turned towards her so she could see the shiny ornaments better. The bartender placed a glass in front of the young man and resumed his place leaning on the far counter.
Grace stopped examining her fellow student, realizing she was being rude and smiled apologetically, “I’m Grace.”
The young dark haired man nodded, “I know.” He took a sip from the glass and smiled. His brown eyes suddenly widened and he coughed a little before continuing. “Can you really raise the dead?”
Grace started to shake her head, but thought better of it, “Not raise, animate, but yes, the dead obey me.”
He sat back and looked hard at the thin bartender, hoping the man would get the hint that he didn’t want an audience, but the thin gray robed man just smiled and looked back to Grace. Drason sighed, “You must think we’re pretty sick to come here and play at being dead…?”
“No, I understand the attraction.” Grace paused to choose her words carefully, “Death is a powerful thing. It’s the most powerful force in the world next to love, of course. Most people are afraid of death though and it takes great courage to face your fears. If more people were able to do that then this place would be so busy that we’d have to fight for seats...”
The thin bartender grinned and his gray eyes took on a far away look for a few moments.
Drason nodded and smiled, “Why are you taking the class then?”
“The treatments the professor teaches makes the dead I animate harder to damage.” Grace eyed her drink again and debated taking another sip. Instead she turned to her companion, “You’re a well traveled young man, why are you taking it?”
He shrugged, “I like to learn things.” He took another sip from his glass and his voice dropped lower, “You really think we’re brave…?”
Grace nodded slowly.
“Is that why you come here?”
“No, I like it that the men here leave me alone.”
Drason blushed again and took another sip of the bittersweet dark liquid.
“I’m sorry, I didn’t mean…” Grace frowned. “Have you ever been to Cyre?”
“No, I never got the chance. Have you?” He looked over and saw her smile wide.
“I was born there. I am not so well traveled as you, but I can promise you that you’ll never see a more vibrant thing than a Cyran city.” She leaned back and closed her eyes, “Every day was like a festival. The cities were always dressed for a celebration with bright colors and music. Once there was a man that had the wanderlust in spades. He traveled far and wide for long periods or short. He entered a Cyran city and couldn’t believe that he’d missed a holiday. He was even more surprised to find out the next day that the city was still the same; bright and festive. The air filled with music and laughter. He decided to spend the rest of his life there. He was my father.” Grace opened her eyes and smiled at the bartender. “That is what Cyre was… an endless celebration.”
Drason smiled, “It must have been something…”
Grace looked into his pale brown eyes, “Yes.”
He looked back at his glass, “So when the day of mourning happened… is that when you decided to become a Necromancer?”
Grace chuckled softly, “No, I’ve always been one. Even as a child. That’s the other great thing about Cyre. The people considered ‘different’ were embraced as being special and they were cherished like the one of a kind creatures that they are.” Grace noted that the stool on the other side of her had been filled and turned to include to the young woman in black. “Once I brought an undead cat to a birthday party. It was the best time our group of children ever had.”
Drason laughed, “Did you really?”
“Oh, yes,” Grace saw the stools by the young woman and Drason fill with somberly dressed young folk. “We were encouraged to try new things, to be as different as we wanted. It was the best place in the world to grow up”
The young woman in black spoke up, her voice was deeper than Grace would have expected, “How do the dead feel?”
Grace turned to her; she was a pretty young woman with dark kohl covered eyelids and powdered cheeks. “Are you asking if they feel things or how they feel to the touch?’
The woman’s cheeks reddened under the pale powder, “Touch.”
“They’re usually a bit cooler than room temperature, a bit like stone.” Grace nodded making a decision, “I stay at the university, my animated horse is there in the stables. If you like you may come and touch him for yourself.”
“Really?” The woman’s eyes narrowed.
“Of course,” Grace smiled.
The young woman smiled back and became even prettier.
The bartender stepped forward, his drawn cheeks were flushed, “Can I come too?”
Grace smiled, “Yes.”

-DM Jeff