dread necromancer

Bad Paper · Mar 2, 2007

Has anyone else noticed that death ward is a third-level spell...and a fourth level spell? Or that dispel magic is a fourth-level spell...but greater dispelling is a fifth-level spell? WtF?

My question, though, is about Lich Transformation. It says the PC becomes a lich, and that the type changes to undead, and to reroll hit points. What about the other lichy stuff? Natural armor? Upgraded Fear Aura? Paralyzing Touch? Turn Resistance? Upgraded Damage Reduction? Immunities? Ability adjustments? Racial skill bonuses?

These things are huge adjustments to the character (doubled DR, and boosts to all mental stats! 48 points of skill modifiers! and so on). Doesn't this kinda black-load the DN class? I woulda figured that there would be more of a linear progression. I haven't found any errata for Heroes of Horror or anything in the FAQ about this.

So do all of these things suddenly happen at 20th level? Does the PC suddenly get a massive level adjustment?

frankthedm · Mar 2, 2007

Bad Paper said:
Bad Paper said:

Has anyone else noticed that death ward is a third-level spell...and a fourth level spell?

Click to expand...

3rd level Vs. 4th level matters on a few things IIRC.

Or that dispel magic is a fourth-level spell...but greater dispelling is a fifth-level spell? WtF?

Click to expand...

They dispel poorly at first, but as they get to BBEG ranking they get a bit better at it. Do not DN's have a slowed spell level progresion?

type changes to undead,
reroll hit points.
Natural armor?
Upgraded Fear Aura?
Paralyzing Touch?
Turn Resistance?
Upgraded Damage Reduction?
Immunities?
Ability adjustments?
Racial skill bonuses?

Click to expand...

Yes. You also gain the Liches evil alignment

48 points of skill modifiers!

Click to expand...

No. PC's and NPC's don't get retroactive skill points as they level up. Creatures built as monsters from the ground up, even by templates, do.

Much like a high HD creature chooses all it's feat based on it's total HD and how advanced monsters have skill points calculated after advancement.

So do all of these things suddenly happen at 20th level? Does the PC suddenly get a massive level adjustment?

Click to expand...

A Horror Campaign making it to 20th?

The rest of the party realizes the fools that they have been in aiding the necromancer and the last battle of the Campaign begins in glorious PVP.

or

The party gets splatted by a CR 25 encounter, the DN Lich reforms 1d10 days later all alone...

frankthedm · Mar 2, 2007

I'd assume since becoming the lich is part of the class, no ecl is assesed, since the potency of the lich is [supposedly] rolled into that 20th level.

Bad Paper · Mar 2, 2007

frankthedm said:
No. PC's and NPC's don't get retroactive skill points as they level up.

These aren't skill points. These are racial skill modifiers. The lich gets +8 on six skills. Are you saying that you also don't give vampires their racial skill mods?

FWIW, I pestered CustServ about this:

Zephreum said:
The entry for the 20th level Lich Transformation tells you what you get. You get no more, and no less. There is no Level adjustment listed within this description so there is none.

OK, so there's no LA, but... none of the other stuff? Why the heck call it "lich transformation" at all?

moritheil · Mar 2, 2007

Wow. That's certainly not how all people have been playing it.

Rystil Arden · Mar 2, 2007

CustServ was telling you that you do get all the abilities. The entry says that you "become a lich". So what happens is that you become a lich. I don't see what is difficult or troublesome about that--giving a cool capstone in a base class discourages cherry-picking or PrC-hopping, so it's cool by me!

Drowbane · Mar 2, 2007

As I understand it...

You get all the perks and penalities of being a Lich without the +3 LA.

I'd still choose a Cleric for the necromancer niche.

frankthedm · Mar 2, 2007

Bad Paper said:
These aren't skill points. These are racial skill modifiers. The lich gets +8 on six skills. Are you saying that you also don't give vampires their racial skill mods?

I did not look up the lich, when you said "48 points of skill modifiers!" I thought for some reason that did not refer to "Racial skill bonuses?" which i said the character would get.

Bad Paper · Mar 3, 2007

Rystil Arden said:
CustServ was telling you that you do get all the abilities. The entry says that you "become a lich". So what happens is that you become a lich.

yeah, but when I asked the question, I asked it in a similar manner to my first post in this thread...

Bad Paper said:
Natural armor? Upgraded Fear Aura? Paralyzing Touch? Turn Resistance? Upgraded Damage Reduction? Immunities? Ability adjustments? Racial skill bonuses?

His answer seems to be basically "No," since all the class mentions is picking up the undead type and rerolling hit points.

frankthedm · Mar 3, 2007

Bad Paper said:
yeah, but when I asked the question, I asked it in a similar manner to my first post in this thread...His answer seems to be basically "No," since all the class mentions is picking up the undead type and rerolling hit points.

Customer Service usually is no service regardless of the company.

You get the lich template.

dread necromancer

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