Eldritch Glaive: too good?

Egres · Apr 12, 2007

This invocation can be found in Dragon Magic, and it basically changes your eldritch balse into a melee reach weapon that you can use to make multiple touch attacks based on your bab.

Considering that the EB basically follows the sneak attack progression, doesn't it replicate a permanent Wraithstrike for the Warlock?

In other words, with this invocation a Warlock can be compared to a rogue of the same level with a permanent wraithstrike, dealing the equivalent of a sneak attack damage with touch attacks.

IanB · Apr 12, 2007

It is awfully strong. Unlike wraithstrike, the attacks are at least subject to spell resistance though. The warlock isn't exactly the pinnacle of survivability in close combat, so there's that as well. Still, very very strong. I haven't seen it extensively in play so I would have to reserve judgement a little bit, but my expectation is that it would prove to be broken.

Maybe not broken on the Tome of Battle balance scale though?

Egres · Apr 12, 2007

IanB said:
It is awfully strong. Unlike wraithstrike, the attacks are at least subject to spell resistance though.

But not to DR, that is commonly more widespread.

Not to mention that there are many ways to get around the sneak attack, but not the same number of ways to get around Eldritch Glaive damage.

The warlock isn't exactly the pinnacle of survivability in close combat, so there's that as well.

But he's surely better than the rogue.

Flee the scene and fly away if something goes bad.

RigaMortus2 · Apr 12, 2007

Doesn't it take a full-round action to attack with the Eldritch Glaive, even if you only have BAB +5 (or lower)? Or am I remembering this wrong. If so, it would prevent charges and move + attacks...

James McMurray · Apr 12, 2007

Are there any of the multiclassing feats that let you combine another class's levels to increase your Eldritch Blast damage? If not my first thought on this (without having read the invocation) is that it's scary sounding, but warlocks are too fragile to make it work well.

Nonlethal Force · Apr 12, 2007

I suppose, but a warlock is not exactly the pinnacle of power. Besides, I'd be more concerned about and eldritch spear, wouldn't you? 250 feet with no increment means that the warlock can attack and move back several times before the enemy can get to him (without the use of magical teleportation). Eldritch glaive requires the opponents to draw atytacks of opportunity. No AoO and eldritch glaive is worse than hideous blow.

Besides, it EG makes your EB a reach weapon, then technically you've got to move away from an opponent beside you in order to use it. Move more than 5 feet and they get an AoO on the warlock!

Nonlethal Force · Apr 12, 2007

RigaMortus2 said:
Doesn't it take a full-round action to attack with the Eldritch Glaive, even if you only have BAB +5 (or lower)? Or am I remembering this wrong. If so, it would prevent charges and move + attacks...

It is a full round action, but it allows you to use itteratives. And, it also allows you to take AoO. But yes, you cannot move and attack as in the typical Spring Attack pattern.

Rystil Arden · Apr 12, 2007

Nonlethal Force said:
I suppose, but a warlock is not exactly the pinnacle of power. Besides, I'd be more concerned about and eldritch spear, wouldn't you? 250 feet with no increment means that the warlock can attack and move back several times before the enemy can get to him (without the use of magical teleportation). Eldritch glaive requires the opponents to draw atytacks of opportunity. No AoO and eldritch glaive is worse than hideous blow.

Besides, it EG makes your EB a reach weapon, then technically you've got to move away from an opponent beside you in order to use it. Move more than 5 feet and they get an AoO on the warlock!

It isn't worse than Hideous Blow even if you get no AoOs because Hideous Blow does not allow iteratives.

James McMurray · Apr 12, 2007

Rystil Arden said:
It isn't worse than Hideous Blow even if you get no AoOs because Hideous Blow does not allow iteratives.

If it's always a full round action then it's worse than Eldritch Blow in all sorts of situations, especially if you haven't yet gotten iterative attacks because you have a 1/2 BAB.

Rystil Arden · Apr 12, 2007

James McMurray said:
If it's always a full round action then it's worse than Eldritch Blow in all sorts of situations, especially if you haven't yet gotten iterative attacks because you have a 1/2 BAB.

If you don't have iteratives, you don't take Glaive. If you have, though, and you're in a situation where you can't use Glaive, you really don't want to be using Hideous Blow either and are almost certainly better off with just firing a normal blast. Also, book not with me now, but isn't Hideous Blow a non-touch attack that also adds the weapon damage to the EB damage? If so, that makes it worse than Glaive yet again.