Master crafter

Rae ArdGaoth

Explorer
That sounds pretty elegant. This opens the possibility of taking everybody in the party's magic weapon and giving it Bane, though. I don't think that's a problem, it's kind of what the ability is all about, versatile magic items. And the power cap keeps it reasonable and balanced. I like.
 

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B4cchus

Explorer
You turn away for a second and people run off with your PrC proposal :p
Anyway, I think Rea's rewrite did clarify a lot. The double cost for weapons does seem good, but i also see the problem with the (un)usefullness at higher levels.
RA's solution (max total bonus = char lvl / 2) seems ok, but it does add some complexity to the whole deal.

Increased casting time seems reasonable. Maybe a feat could reduce it (eg. to 1 minute for 1 feat and a full round action for the second feat. I'll check the feats for faster infusions for artificers as i believe they have this too).

Any opinion on the duration? 24 hrs still acceptable?


-edit- just a crazy idea to fix the high level power problems: why not stretch the Prc for 5 more classes, giving it 10 levels?
 

Rae ArdGaoth

Explorer
Meh, I'm so-so about the 10 level PrC. It's not exactly the most PC-attractive class even in its current form. I think 5 is plenty for a Craft-focused PrC. You're right about the added layer of complexity, but I don't see an easy way around it. As for the feats... meh, I don't like it. Imbue is pretty great as is, I don't think it needs to quickened. And I don't really see a PC taking 2 feats to do that. Actually, 1 minute or 10 minutes, it's probably not taking place in combat, so I'd be okay with reducing the time down to 1 minute. EDIT: Er, it already is one minute. So yeah, I'd be okay with that. :confused:

I think this is almost ready for a vote. Give it another update and we'll see.
 

Velmont

First Post
I think I would prefer the imbue work more like the artificer imbuing. Which mean it takes time to cats, so it is hard to put it in combat, but when you know what is coming, you can easily prepare it before teh combat and it's give you a serious edge.

I think imbue would be just good if it was a casting time of 1 minute and could have a duration of 1 hour/ PrC level, so it would be great, but when you think you'll need something on the long run, you'll have to judge when it is more appropriate.

Full round casting and 24 hours duration, I find that a bit too strong.
 



Velmont

First Post
Imbuing is now a 1 minute action... at least with that, you don't have your master crafter that come and each time he sees a monster, he enchant his weapon with Bane. The 24 hours seems still a bit long, but I would wait after judges comments on that before doing any modification if I were you.
 

Rae ArdGaoth

Explorer
Velmont said:
Imbuing is now a 1 minute action... at least with that, you don't have your master crafter that come and each time he sees a monster, he enchant his weapon with Bane. The 24 hours seems still a bit long, but I would wait after judges comments on that before doing any modification if I were you.
I like the 24 hours. I see Imbue Item as kind of a way for Master Crafters to always have a powerful magical item on them. And since they're Masters, their magical items are better than most; specifically, they're more versatile. But that doesn't mean they have a constantly morphing sword of Bane. It means at the beginning of the day, or before a big planned encounter, they can prepare themselves by Imbuing their armor or weapon, or perhaps imbuing an ally's. If we reduce the duration, I would say we should up the number of times per day it could be used, because this is the MC's only combat ability. Okay, that's not entirely true, he gets a few levels of spellcasting, too. But he also loses some spellcasting power (2 levels, to be exact) while taking this class.

I think it's balanced, though I haven't playtested it or anything.

ON THE NEW PROPOSAL
When a master crafter level is gained, the character gains new spells or powers per day as if he had also gained a level in any one spellcasting or psionic class he belonged to before he added the prestige class he belonged to previously.
This is incorrect, because it's every ODD MC level, not EVERY level.

Master craftsman.
A master crafter gains a competence bonus on any craft check equal to his master crafter level. He also receives a competence bonus to his effective caster level to meet requirements for crafting magical items (such as the caster level requirement for crafting magical weapons and armor). This does not influence the caster level of spells cast or powers manifested for creating a magical item.
The bolded line doesn't specify the size of the competence bonus. We both know it's the MC level, but you need to word it properly.

ON IMBUE ITEM:
I think we decided that 14,000gp was too much. Drop it to 5,000gp?

If an item already has an enchantment bonus, any enchantment bonus added by the imbue item stacks, but only with the item's own enchantment bonus.
This is unclear because what you refer to is actually the "magical enhancement bonus" not the enchantment bonus. Try this:

If an item already has a magical enhancement bonus, any enhancement bonus added by Imbue Item stacks, but only with the item's own magical enhancement bonus, not the enhancement bonuses from masterwork items or those granted by spells or abilities.

---------------

With all that fixed, I think I'll start the ball rolling and vote YES to this PrC. The things that might still need tweaking are the Imbue Item power limits: the gp limit, and the max-modifier limit. My vote will stand through all changes in the "nerf" direction, but I'll have to reconsider if the change is in the "more-powerful" direction. (I actually think 14,000gp is fine. It's not exponential like real character wealth is, but its simple.)
 

Rystil Arden

First Post
But he also loses some spellcasting power (2 levels, to be exact) while taking this class.

I think it's balanced, though I haven't playtested it or anything.

Let's consider--he loses no spellcasting except at character level (assume immediate entry, of course) 7 and 9. The Eldritch Knight loses 2 spellcasting levels as well, but loses them at the significantly more painful levels of somewhere between 1 through 6 (usually 1 or 6) and 7. For this, the Eldritch Knight gains 5 extra BAB, a Fighter feat, and +10 HP (equivalent to the new HP feat) and loses out on skills somewhat (Eldritch Knight skill selection is significantly worse than Wizard's). The good Fort is countered by the mysteriously bad Will.

So, considering that extra BAB do not synergise particularly well with Wizard (since the class does zero to deal with ASF on armour, and we don't have any of the mondo-stupid-crazy spells like Wraithstrike that ruin your game when used by Eldritch Knights) and the Master Crafter does (Wizard gives you free Craft feats if you want them, Wizards already like to prebuff, etc), we need to ask if the two classes are relatively balanced in what they get for giving up two casting levels (keeping in mind that the EK is hurt more from the casting loss because it gives up the levels earlier before it starts gaining any of the PrC goodies, whereas the MC can take a 1 level dip and then leave the PrC forevermore, and she won't lose a single caster level).
 

Rae ArdGaoth

Explorer
Rystil always makes very convincing arguments. I find myself mostly persuaded already. Personally, though, I find the EK underpowered. And the MC has very little combat prowess, like I've said. That being noted, how about changing the +1 CL's to L2 and L4 for the MC? That deals with both of your contentions.
 

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