Metal School

Dannyalcatraz said:

Wow...I don't know how many, if any, Bill Ward solo albums I own.

And my collection is still boxed up, so I can't check!

As for where to find it, my first stops would be Waterloo Records (Austin), Bill's Records & Tapes (D/FW), Forever Young Records (D/FW) or Apple Records (San Antonio). I know Waterloo is online, but I don't know about the others. And if you're a good looking young man, you can get a better deal by showing up at Bill's- he's a gay old goat. No, I'm not kidding. If he thinks you look hot, you'll get a better price. (And no, he doesn't try anything, just looks you up & down.)

(No, I did NOT get a better price.)

There is also an international record convention that shows up every year in Austin around March, as I recall. Lots of obscure stuff there.

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I'm going to be in the DFW area in a couple of months, I'll have to seek some of these places out.

Dannyalcatraz said:

After reading:

Black Sabbath - Liked some of the songs, like war pigs, paranoid and the one about the jet fighters
Deep Purple - Who? (I have heard of them)
Rush - Who?
Led Zeppelin - They are great, but I'm not that big of a fan
ZZ Top - Have 'Tush' but not heard anything else...
Budgie - Who?
Queen - Who? Kidding! They are AWESOME.
Iron Maiden - Also awesome, but not keen on the new album.
Ynqwie J. Malmsteen - Have one track but I seriously want to get more.

late in this ( Metalheads! Confess & Brag - EN World D&D / RPG News ) thread, it occurs to me that we older metalheads may not be doing the best job of passing along the history of our preferred music to the youngbloods, especially those who came to the genre alone and without guidance.

I laid down some basic background info on Black Sab, Rush, Deep Purple, and Budgie in posts #167 & #169 in that thread, but I know that's not an exhaustive list of important foundational bands.

So, Old-School Metalheads, lay down the knowlege for your younger bretheren- who should every metalhead know and respect for their contributions to the genre, if not actually enjoy, and some of their key tunes.

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none of those are metal but Sabbath and Maiden. Grow up.

If you're gonna pass on teh br00tal m3t4lz try doing stuff like... Hair Metal and stuff otherwise you're shooting yourself in the foot because lots of bands don't qualify as metal.

Also, thread needs more JETHRO TULL

I think I've grown enough, thank you very much. You might want to take your own advice, though.

I didn't say most of those bands were metal. Most of them are hard rock.

However, if you know your metal history, the first band to whom the term "heavy metal" was applied was Steppenwolf, followed soon after by Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin.

Any definition of heavy metal that excludes them is to ignore the history of the genre, and the history of metal- and to a certain extent, hard rock- is what this thread is about. While Black Sabbath carried the bulk of the burden of defining heavy metal, the contributions Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple made to the nascent genre is undeniable.

FWIW, early Rush is no less heavy than any of those, but over time, they morphed into a prog-(hard)rock band. And had they not done what they did, its unlikely that prog would have gained as much of a foothold in metal as it has.

So, while many of the bands mentioned in this thread may not be heavy enough to satisfy you, the fact remains: all are either metal, key to certain elements of the genre, or inspired by metal. And knowing those details makes you a scholar of the genre, and better able to understand its many nuances.

Dannyalcatraz said:

FWIW, early Rush is no less heavy than any of those, but over time, they morphed into a prog-(hard)rock band. And had they not done what they did, its unlikely that prog would have gained as much of a foothold in metal as it has.

So, while many of the bands mentioned in this thread may not be heavy enough to satisfy you, the fact remains: all are either metal, key to certain elements of the genre, or inspired by metal. And knowing those details makes you a scholar of the genre, and better able to understand its many nuances.

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Well said. You can not listen to, say 2112, and not classify it as metal. I had the great fortune not so many years ago to see the trio do it, in it's entirety, live in Dallas at the Starplex/Smirnov or whatever they call it nowadays. I've seen Rush three times and they never disappoint me. The first time Suicidal Tendancies opened for them in Tulsa, the last two were in Dallas and they had no opening act, just damn near 3 hours of Rush.

Their transition into prog is really what set them apart from the pack. 2112, in my mind, is the definitve Rush album. It is prog (in structure, at least) and heavy metal. The two are by no means mutually exclusive. Starting with Permanent waves the band went Prog and left metal, for the most part, behind.

Anyone saying Deep Purple isn't metal, imnsho, is an idiot. Period.

Malmsteen is metal, in his own way. He was speed metal before there was speed metal, the noodle fingered bastard.

Queen had it's metal moments, but mostly they were Opera rock, much the same as Styx. Love both bands, but I would call neither metal. But, wait, if you like do an entire soundtrack for Highlander don't you have to be metal? umm no. I hate Christopher Lambert. I'm glad there's only one of him. I don't hate the first Highlander though.

ZZTop is more blues rock than anything else. No where close to being metal.

Speaking of blues rock, one that definitely bleeds over into Metal is AC/DC. I turned my nose up at them for years simply because I preferred the more 'intellectual' stuff (Maiden and such). I out grew my elitism/idealism, as everyone does, and am quite fond of them now.

Ok, I will now admit my one metal guilty pleasure: Manowar. Cheesy to the extreme, but damn. I don't think there are any songs that have been played more in my D&D campaigns than Black Wind, Fire & Steel and Defender. I am an outcast on the path of no return, punisher and swordsman, I was born to burn!

Budgie- The only song I can recall is "Crash Course in Brain Surgery".

While I'm here and typing, I feel the need to say Jethro Tull is definitely not Metal. Seriously! Elandrin, you were kidding, right? I'm not saying I don't like me some Tull, but they are definitely not Metal.

Don't know if they have been mentioned, I haven't been through the whole thread, but Metal Church brings back some memories.

Speaking of memories, and some of my earlier days of gaming, let's not forget Cirith Ungol.

I think he was alluding to Tull's victory over Metallica as the Grammy's first winner of the "Best Metal Album" of the year to mock me.

Dannyalcatraz said:

I think he was alluding to Tull's victory over Metallica as the Grammy's first winner of the "Best Metal Album" of the year to mock me.

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Doh! I should have caught that. I was a bit snookered last night when I posted.

That happened my first year in College iirc. In retrospect that just reinforced the f*&^ the establishment attitude that's pretty much always been present. The irony of it is that Metallica has now become the establishment and is much worse for it, imo.

Didn't Metallica release a different cover for And Justice for All that had "Grammy Losers" or something like that on it?

Kneecleaver said:

Speaking of blues rock, one that definitely bleeds over into Metal is AC/DC.

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Black Sabbath as well (and, perhaps, even moreso).

Props I feel also need to go to some pioneers who tend to defy easy classification but still hit some Metal riffs. For me, chief among these are Iggy Pop and Lou Reed.

Iron Butterfly fits in the spectrum somewhere as well. Definitely some heavy elements (hence the "Iron") mixed with blues and psychedelia.

Manowar is one of my favorite metal bands. Kings of metal being my most listened to album from them. Not as happy with the changes after Triumph of Steel, though that album was good.

I suspect that when Danny cited Queen or ZZ Top, much as he did Deep Purple, he was pointing out their contribution to metal as a whole. I have no doubt these bands influenced the early metal bands, who in turn influenced others.

While I have jokingly said "hardly any good music came out of the 70's" the truth is, all the influences for the metal I liked from the 80's came from the 70's. BTW, my snarky point about the 70s was the abomination known as disco and the BeeGees. yuck!

Well, while I do think those bands had an influence on hard rock and metal...and had influences from those genres, remember that they were originally brought up in a quote from someone else.

The youngster was a bit mystified as to whom certain bands- bands of EPIC importance to rock and roll in general- were, which prompted me to quote his entire little set of queries.

Hey Shredheads! The headmaster is back (for a moment anyway as my main computer is down and I have to use this pukey netbook (which I actually like BTW)).

To settle some arguments, metal school was founded by Danny and more or less taken over by me due to my incredible lack of a life dabbling in the professional music scene. Every band listed by Danny is instrumental in the establishment of metal. While many people feel that hair bands, hair metal, or hairspray rock, is not true metal, please remember that without their mainstream exposure, the fringe bands would still be in a garage because a flood of heavy metal and hard rock acts were signed to major labels in the 80s due to this exposure, with labels hoping to grab the next big thing.

Slayer, Metallica, Megadeath and Anthrax (they holy four of Thrash) would still be playing skate parks if not for record execs looking for the next wave in metal. And without them Sepultura, Hatebreed, Death, and such would never have been looked at either. Hard Rock (thank you 70's) pushed rock n' roll out of bubble gum, bobby socks and folky hippie trash. So bands like Kansas, Journey, Boston, Fastway, April Wine and Ted Nugent, are all VERY much an integral part of the lineage of metal.

As for Rush, anymore dissension and I'll call down the gods of metal (I have them on speed dial) to burn you to a cinder. More bands that fly the metal flag cite them as early inspiration than almost any other band other than KISS (which they opened up for on their first American tour BTW)

There is a documentary called "Heavy: The story of Metal" that is a must see if you are truly interested in an accurate and nearly exhaustive history of metal from its humble beginnings to its world wide movement today. More importantly we need to stand as a united front as the vocal minority that we are. You don't have to like everything (I personally don't like Nordic Black metal), but I know that it has its place and respect it for what it is. Regardless of how much you may think Poison sucks (I know I do) I appreciate that they brought hundreds of thousands of screaming fans to shows in the 80s, which exposed them to all sorts of opening acts which were usually more heavy than they were. (Def Leppard is another group that usually has some really good up and coming talent open for them.)

Basically, learn, that's what this forum is for. Just like in school, you have your favorite subjects, I'm fine with that, but don't turn your nose up at anything, because it may have merit, if not on a listening level, if you are a musician, then a performance level. Paganini, Bach and Beethoven aren't metal, but Malmsteen cites them as an influences and he definitely is... think about it.

Thrash on my little metal heads, I shall be lurking...