HackMaster: The New Edition

Since I started this thread, I guess I should say what I want and don't want from the new HackMaster:

KEEP
Keep the basic idea behind HackMaster: AD&D turned up to 11.
Keep the old-school classes, class titles, stuff like that.
Keep the humor (I can't imagine HackMaster without humor anymore than Paranoia without humor)
Keep all old-school style art.

LOSE
Lose the -awgisms.
Lose non-gaming related puns.
Lose the Fraim brothers (give'em a job doing some new KotDT Illustrated instead).
Lose the complexity.
Lose multiple multiple multiple monster books.
Lose the parody.



Can HackMaster be AD&D turned to 11 without the complexity? I think so. I don't think we need to lose crazy critical hit options and big character customization, things just need to be streamlined a bit.

I would like to see HackMaster move away from Greyhawk parody (not that I dislike it) and more toward original stuff... just like they have been doing.

Ideally, I would want K&C to buy the rights to Greyhawk and put Erik Mona in charge of a new Greyhawk sourcebook, but that wouldn't work under the HackMaster line. OR WOULD IT? Dun, dun dunnnnn.

With C&C, d20, OSRIC and FUDGE out there, a new edition of HackMaster would be in a great position to use whatever they want from each to make a fun, crazy, Hacksperience. Heck, maybe the C&C SIEGE system could be used for HackMaster and amped up... you know, AC&C. There are really so many possibilities.

HackMaster is in kind of a bad position as an "old-school" game. When it first came out, the old-school revolution wasn't as big as it is now. Now, one can play Judge's Guild using d20, there are dozens of old-school d20 modules, and there's a 1e AD&D renaissance. Gamers interested in the old-school experience no longer need to rely on a parody game for new material.

In any case, I'll be interested in seeing what happens next.

Ron said:

When I suggested the Hackmaster Rules Cyclopedia I was not complaining about the amount of crunch in the current edition -- the crunchy stuff is usually fun to read. I was complaining the fact that, having ten core books, the current edition is not accessible to casual players or even to those that are reading for the fun. A single volume edition would cover those players and also provide a easier entry option to the game.

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I agree. If you look at A&8 (single book for GM/Player containing everything needed to play) I would say it resembles how any -ahem- future edition of Hackmaster would be handeled.

Of course we're learning something new with each new product line so any and listening to our base. So we're exploring new ideas and considering options.

w_earle_wheeler said:

Lose the Fraim brothers (give'em a job doing some new KotDT Illustrated instead).

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Wow. I can't imagine HackMaster without the Fraims. They've defined the look of HM, in my strong opinion. It would take a lot of the life out of the game books.

w_earle_wheeler said:

HackMaster is in kind of a bad position as an "old-school" game. When it first came out, the old-school revolution wasn't as big as it is now. Now, one can play Judge's Guild using d20, there are dozens of old-school d20 modules, and there's a 1e AD&D renaissance. Gamers interested in the old-school experience no longer need to rely on a parody game for new material.

In any case, I'll be interested in seeing what happens next.

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Hackmaster continues to sell very well for us. Which accounts for the recent surge in new product we've been trying to get out there.

So it definitely has a bright future. I can't say too much on the subject now but I can tell you that we're very passionate about the game and interested in taking it forward.

Let's just say we have the same concerns (and beef) with certain aspects of HM that were neccessary due to our 'parody clause'.


I'm confident HM fans will embrace any new edition. But only time will tell.

It'll all abe about fixing what needs to be fixing and keeping what works.

A process we certainly won't wade into without carefully thinking it through.

Wow. I can't imagine HackMaster without the Fraims. They've defined the look of HM, in my strong opinion. It would take a lot of the life out of the game books.

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Agreed. WOTC's artists have their moments in black and white (I liked the 3E concept sketches from Lockwood et. al. and WAR's work on Deep Dwarven Delve more than the coloured end result in the core books), but the Fraims embody a style that to me is more definitively D&D than the actual D&D artwork...which is what HM's all about.

Jolly_Blackburn said:

Good ideas. We've talked about doing a HM Lite edition. No official plans (yet) but something we've definitely been keepin notes on.

I will point out that A&8 can be as complex as the players/GM want it to be.

There are basic rules and then a LOT of advanced rules that are optional.

Sort of a programmed instruction approach -- players pick the advanced rules they want to use and add them to the game as they master the rules.

I like this approach. A new edtion of HM would proably use a similar path.

Basic and Advanced all rolled into one book. Want to use just the basic rules. Go for it.

Want more crunch? Heap it on according to your own taste/playing style.

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Thanks. I'll have to pick up A&8 now for more than just a pretty book to read. The idea of a game with variable complexity is very interesting. I tried to get an old school game of Basic D&D going last year, but the players say it isn't granular enough. Something of a HM Lite could appeal.

Jolly_Blackburn said:

I agree. If you look at A&8 (single book for GM/Player containing everything needed to play) I would say it resembles how any -ahem- future edition of Hackmaster would be handeled.

Of course we're learning something new with each new product line so any and listening to our base. So we're exploring new ideas and considering options.

Click to expand...

I checked your website and I have to say that it sparked in me an interest for your A&8 book. I was not giving much attention to it because I thought it was a d20 or OGL variant and I was even considering tracking Boot Hill at e-Bay. However, as it seems to be a tailored system, it is perhaps worth of my money.

Speaking of original systems, have you thought dropping Wizard's license and create a new and original Hackmaster?

You know, I have no idea why I never liked the Fraims in the HM books, especially since I liked seeing their work in KotDT Illustrated. I think it's because their art seems way too modern for an old-school style book. Who knows. Maybe just a misfired synapse in the brain.

Ron said:

I checked your website and I have to say that it sparked in me an interest for your A&8 book. I was not giving much attention to it because I thought it was a d20 or OGL variant and I was even considering tracking Boot Hill at e-Bay. However, as it seems to be a tailored system, it is perhaps worth of my money.

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Thanks. A&8 is just an awesome product. Course I'm biased. I think it caught a lot of retailers off guard at GAMA. "Wow!" was probably the most uttered word I heard the booth when people first picked it up.

It became pretty clear after the first day we had underprinted.

Ron said:

Speaking of original systems, have you thought dropping Wizard's license and create a new and original Hackmaster?

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Not sure how much I can say about our plans for the next edition of Hackmaster. Let's just say it will be new and improved yet comfortable like a worn pair of shoes.

And a few years off.

Aces & Eights: Shattered Frontier = the nicest *RPG* book EVER made (and yes, that includes all the leather bound books done previous. yes, including WoTC's).

I made such a boast repeatedly over 3 days at GTS (GAMA)...not one retailer or distributor disagreed.

You heard it here first.


If you don't like the game, you can always use it as a coffee table book.