Complex underpowered magic items in Magic Item Compendium

Friendless · May 16, 2007

I bought the Magic Item Compendium on Saturday and I'm busily reading through it. There are some very interesting ideas, but there are a vast number of items I'd never use because:

1. their powers are too restrictive
2. they have too many powers
3. they're recommended for levels that wouldn't even want them

Now I'm going to totally make up an example here because if my boss comes along and sees me with a roleplaying manual on my desk I'm going to be in trouble. But there are many items with powers like this:

SWORD OF STABBING

This is a +1 long sword which allows the user to make sneak attacks on oozes, slimes, constructs and undead. The device has 3 charges which replenish at dawn each day. For the expenditure of 1 charge the wielder may turn invisible for 1 round. For the expenditure of 2 charges the wielder turns invisible and receives +5 on Move Silently and Hide checks. For the expenditure of 3 charges the user receives the affects for 2 charges and additionally is Blessed.

Cost 15000gp, 11th level

If you read the book you'll recognise the sort of thing I mean. My gripes are:
* too many powers - what about just a +1 sword that gives you +2 on Move Silently with no charges at all - if I had 5 similar items I'd never remember all the things all my items did
* too obscure powers - yes it would be nice to be able to backstab slimes and oozes, but is it worth keeping a sword just for that? I'd rather dump this sword for something that gives me a bonus all the time
* 11th level? What 11th level character will want to use a +1 sword because of an obscure power like that?

I read the authors' justifications for the item levels (half the value of the amount of treasure you'd be expected to receive while you were in that level) and it makes sense, but the item level system just doesn't feel right to me. No +2 weapons till 9th level seems very harsh.

Finally, unless I misunderstand, the augment crystals seem to be extremely good value compared to the basic items.

I'm a fairly novice DM (this time round) and I wonder whether my opinions on magic items are way off the mark, or is this a symptom of anti-munchkining gone too far?

MerricB · May 16, 2007

Friendless - post an actual example from the book and we'll talk then.

Making up an example is not a good idea of winning converts to your cause. I'm more than happy to discuss the good and the bad in the way of magic items from the MIC, but I need something concrete to work from.

The item level system is... interesting. It's not an absolute system, but it can be a very, very useful guideline.

Cheers!

charlesatan · May 16, 2007

Re: Augment Crystals

At first glance, they do seem powerful for their costs and the fact that they're interchangeable. Here's some notes I have on them though:

1) If they're cheap, they were designed that way. If you listened to the recent Podcast interview (which does cover IMC), augment crystals are there for early adventurers so that you can have a magic item at around 2nd-level or 3rd-level.

2) Some of the augment crystals are conditional, affecting incorporeal undead, outsiders, etc., Sure, if your campaign was an undead-themed one or some such, the augment crystals might seem "too cheap for its benefits" but if you're throwing a game with a mix of various monsters, the augment crystals give you handy options to deal with pesky foes that only occasionally turn up.

3) Augment crystals don't stack with themselves--that is, you can only have one augment crystal on your weapon/armor/shield at a time. Unlike a +1 sword that can be flaming burst, frost burst, shocking burst, acidic burst, etc. at the same time, you're limited to one augment crystal.

Lancelot · May 16, 2007

I have Magic Item Compendium, but haven't got around to reading it yet.

Regards the example you gave, and if I had a rogue PC, I'd take it over a +2 blade any day. Heck, I'd take it over a +4 blade. Gone are the days of 1e, 2e, and even 3.0e, where you had to have a weapon of a certain "plussage" to hit various creatures. Damage reduction these days is simply a matter of needing a +1 weapon to hit "DR: magic".

So, what does that additional "plussage" actually give you? A 5% increase per plus on chance to hit, and a relatively insignificant damage bonus. For a rogue, in particular, the damage bonus is trivial. You're all about the sneak attacks. If you're not able to do a sneak attack, you're dealing... what... 1d8+3 damage per hit? If you're sneak attacking, it's more like 1d8+5d6+3 damage. Huge difference.

I'm not sure about the campaigns you've experienced, but D&D is packed with constructs and undead. A casual glance at some of the more popular campaigns (Age of Worms, Savage Tide, Red Hand of Doom, Expedition to the Whatever) shows maybe 25% of encounters involve something that is immune to sneak attacks. Particularly at higher levels, this is a huge impact on your average rogue. At 15th level, would you rather have a +5 blade that allows you to do another 12 points of damage per round (assuming 3 attacks = 3 hits), or a +1 blade that allows you to do another 66 points of damage per round (assuming 3 sneak attacks)? Even if the second blade only comes into play in 25% of encounters, you're still coming out ahead. And that's not counting the massive savings in equipment value (only 15k, vs whatever it is for a +5 sword!) and the additional bonus powers. Invisibility? Another tool to enable the big sneak attack damage. Hide/Move Silent bonuses, you say? I'd love that at high levels, when outsiders/dragons have such huge Spot/Listen modifiers.

I guess what I'm saying is, don't fall into the "old edition" perspective of "+5 blade = mucho powerful". A +5 blade really isn't that big a deal these days, compared to the items which enhance class abilities and negate entire class weaknesses.

Imagine a ring of protection +1 that allowed a mage to cast mirror image 3/day as an immediate action. Far inferior to a ring of protection +5, right? Not in my experience...

Friendless · May 16, 2007

If I get sacked you've got to find me a new job OK? Details summarised because it's not my content to republish.

page 132 Scentblinder 8000gp (11th level) - Conceals your scent so creatures cannot track you or locate you by scent.

I would be comfortable with a 1st level character having that power. 11th?!

page 53 Meteoric Knife 2802gp (7th) - +1 dagger, 3 charges/day, 1 charge "returning" for 1 round, 2 charges "flaming" for 1 round as well, 3 charges +3d6 fire explosion if it hits in that 1 round.

I'd rather have a 300gp augment crystal (+1 fire damage every hit) than all those powers which work so rarely.

Friendless · May 16, 2007

Lancelot said:
I guess what I'm saying is, don't fall into the "old edition" perspective of "+5 blade = mucho powerful". A +5 blade really isn't that big a deal these days, compared to the items which enhance class abilities and negate entire class weaknesses.

Good point, but the item level for a +5 blade is 18th. Not a big deal but you still can't have one.

Evilhalfling · May 16, 2007

I have been using the MIC since it came out and the players gotten five of the items:

Boots of Agility - used all the time for +4-12 on jump checks from extra speed (3 ch day)
Gloves of the Stars (experiment with, mastered, never used )
Brass Dragon Draught - expended.

New campaign:
Chronocharm of the horizenwalker (used once in 2 sessions)
Any least weapon crystal (player chose crystal of return) always used to draw a sword, then lock into gauntlet(full round action)

this list has a value < 4000gp lots of the stuff is dirt cheap

More than one of those items with 3 charges each might get forgotten. But some players are more willing to use them than others. I would not suggest Players be turned loose on the book to buy starting equipment, but it makes fine treasure.

blargney the second · May 16, 2007

I'd say Scentblinder is 11th level because before then it's too expensive for an interesting but not permanently useful ability. (ie compare to a big sixer.)
-blarg

Dark Psion · May 16, 2007

There are several "3 charge" items throughout the book. They regain their 3 charges each day.

Amulet of Tears (pg70): 1 charge gives you 12 temp hp, 2 charges = 18 temp hp and 3 charges = 24 temp hp.

Boots of Jumping (pg77): 1 charge = +10 Jump, 2 charges = +15 Jump an 3 charges = +20 Jump

Gauntlet of Infinite Blades ( a rare 5 charge item pg101): 1 charge = summons +3 dagger, 3 charges = +3 dagger of seeking and 5 charges = +3 bane dagger of seeking

Torc of Displacement (pg143): 1 charge = 20% miss chance, 2 charges = 30% miss and 3 charges = 40% miss

There are also several "3 times per day" items (why all the 3?);

Toxic Gloves (pg144): Poison a weapon you are holding. Use 3 times per day

Harrow Rod (pg162): Spray acid in a 30ft. cone for 9d6 dmg. Use 3 times per day

Almost all of the new rods are "3 times per day" items.

My only problem with these items is that after you use them up, what's to stop you from switching them with another item? Does this item have to be worn to recover it's charges? You could require a specific action to recharge them; prayer to Boccob, rinse it in wine, holy water or blood, or something similar.

I suppose the Boots of Jumping above are an attempt to undo the popularity of the Boots of Striding & Springing. Some continuous use items are probably too powerful and these "base3" items are an attempt to reign in a dragon that is already in flight.

MerricB · May 16, 2007

Friendless said:
page 132 Scentblinder 8000gp (11th level) - Conceals your scent so creatures cannot track you or locate you by scent.

I would be comfortable with a 1st level character having that power. 11th?!

Heh. Yeah, that's not a very interesting item. I will muse that it might not become useful until later... when you meet creatures with scent, but I think that's lousy musing as well.

Not a good item.

page 53 Meteoric Knife 2802gp (7th) - +1 dagger, 3 charges/day, 1 charge "returning" for 1 round, 2 charges "flaming" for 1 round as well, 3 charges +3d6 fire explosion if it hits in that 1 round.

I'd rather have a 300gp augment crystal (+1 fire damage every hit) than all those powers which work so rarely.

Now, that's an interesting item! It costs 500 gp to get those powers. Is the augment crystal better? Sort of, but it comes with a restriction: only one per weapon. I'd prefer to have an augment crystal *and* the knife (assuming the knife was a good weapon for my PC).

Really, it's a +1 dagger with an ability you use 1/day (probably flaming). {for certain PCs, returning will be good}. Its use is one of those "ace in the hole" type abilities - finding yourself fighting a mummy suddenly increases the potency of the item. Or perhaps you just need that extra damage at the right time. It also gives you some choice as to how you use it.

Cheers!