A Sojourn in Sairundan [Judge: Manzanita]

Solange · Jun 28, 2007

OOC:

SRD said:
Determine Effect
A spell successfully activated from a scroll works exactly like a spell prepared and cast the normal way. Assume the scroll spell’s caster level is always the minimum level required to cast the spell for the character who scribed the scroll (usually twice the spell’s level, minus 1), unless the caster specifically desires otherwise.

That agrees with that statement. (Rae's)

Rystil Arden · Jun 28, 2007

(OOC: DC is 11, period, unfortunately

It can never be higher on a scroll. Hurray for staves!)

AGFlynn · Jun 28, 2007

Cludge Slatefist, Fighter 2 (HP:23 AC:15)

Rystil Arden said:
(OOC: DC is 11, period, unfortunately It can never be higher on a scroll. Hurray for staves!)

OOC: My understanding has always been that the minimum caster level/abilities for scrolls applies to those purchased, as a basline and general rule, not those created by a caster. I think you were right the first time, the DC should be 15. That's the way we've always played it anyway. Only have access to the impenetrable online SRD right now, so I stand to be corrected.

Rystil Arden · Jun 28, 2007

(OOC: Caster level can be chosen by the creator, but you pay more for caster level above the minimum, based on the 25 x caster level x spell level formula. DC is always always always based on the minimum stat necessary to cast the spell. With staves it isn't. That's why staves are better than wands and scrolls

SRD said:
Saving Throws Against Magic Item Powers

Magic items produce spells or spell-like effects. For a saving throw against a spell or spell-like effect from a magic item, the DC is 10 + the level of the spell or effect + the ability modifier of the minimum ability score needed to cast that level of spell.

Staffs are an exception to the rule. Treat the saving throw as if the wielder cast the spell, including caster level and all modifiers to save DC.

Most item descriptions give saving throw DCs for various effects, particularly when the effect has no exact spell equivalent (making its level otherwise difficult to determine quickly).

This is also why scrolls of Colour Spray are pretty much trash, even though it is a brilliant spell at low levels. Wizards are best served scribing utility spells like Knock that are highly useful when needed, usually not needed so bad to prepare, and don't have a pertinent DC)

Trouvere · Jun 28, 2007

Rystil Arden said:
(OOC: This is also why scrolls of Colour Spray are pretty much trash, even though it is a brilliant spell at low levels.

OOC: Tend to agree, although the one and only time Conuld cast Color Spray in anger, those affected (including a Wizard 2) didn't manage to roll better than 9, so as a desperate measure it can still have some use. As such, inspired by his early success, Conuld has scribed one, even if it is a strictly suboptimal choice.

AGFlynn · Jun 28, 2007

Rystil Arden said:
(OOC: Caster level can be chosen by the creator, but you pay more for caster level above the minimum, based on the 25 x caster level x spell level formula. DC is always always always based on the minimum stat necessary to cast the spell. With staves it isn't. That's why staves are better than wands and scrolls

OOC: I still don't see where it says spells scribed to scroll are always based on the minimum stat necessary to cast the spell. Isn't that just a general rule that makes it easy to determine a basline level / caster ability for casting a found scroll or one purchased?

Trouvere · Jun 28, 2007

Conuld, human transmuter 1 (AC 12, HP 6/6)

OOC: long series of OOC postings freak me out :uhoh:

Don't worry about it, Mr Flynn. Conuld's sheet said DC 11 before this. I just thought I would check.

"Singing is a good idea. Or I have a whistle I could blow. Once we draw him out, we will have a short time only to decide if he can be treated with, or if he is unreasonable and a danger to all who pass this way. I think, though, we can assume the latter. The coincidence of the broken bridge is too great. And what manner of creature is he that he could shatter the span of the bridge? Perhaps we would do better to engage him from a distance with our bows than to trade blows with him up close. Although Cludge does not have one, I see."

Rystil Arden · Jun 28, 2007

AGFlynn said:
OOC: I still don't see where it says spells scribed to scroll are always based on the minimum stat necessary to cast the spell. Isn't that just a general rule that makes it easy to determine a basline level / caster ability for casting a found scroll or one purchased?

(OOC: No, it's not a general rule to make it easy. It's a hard and fast rule for magic items that is an important factor in game balance. It doesn't say anywhere that the DC can be different for scrolls or wands--in fact, it spells out that staves are the one and only exception for the rule unless specifically called out in the item description. This only makes sense--otherwise one could purchase scrolls crafted by a Wizard with 30 Int at caster level 1 (still at 25 gp apiece, since price is based solely on the item's caster level) and wind up with DC 21 on their 1st-level scrolls, etc.

If you don't believe me, we can post a thread in the Rules Forum, though that seems unnecessary, since Trouvere agrees as well. I assure you that the DC limit is RAW, and as far as I can tell, it is definitely RAI as well.)

Solange · Jun 28, 2007

OOC: Can we get back to sacrificing someone to the bridge troll?

"I can draw him out then, and the rest of you can hang back just a bit, ready to launch a strike if he chooses to attack? I can hold my own in combat, and have been trained by daddy in the arts of the dervish," Shadya says.

Trouvere · Jun 28, 2007

Conuld sighs. "You should not be the one to risk yourself. I have a scroll here of a spell beloved by faessi levethix which will let me run as fast as an unladen horse. If I cast it moments before reaching the bridge, I do not think that he will be able to catch me. I can try to keep safely ahead of him, and draw him into an ambush of our own."