Sell me on Complete Mage/Complete Scoundrel/Complete Champion

Waylander · Jun 23, 2007

I've read some positive and negative comments about the "new" Complete series and I'd be grateful if any one who owns any of the three books could highlight what the strengths are from each one.

Commenting on the weaknesses is OK but I'd rather the thread stayed positive if ay all possible!

EyeontheMountain · Jun 23, 2007

All three are good sources to buy. Overall, I like complete mage best, as to gave the bards an excellent prestige class hat does not step on Arcane toes like the Sub lime chord does, and there is a LOT for the specialist wizard, making them much more viable and a reasonable choice over a generalist wizard.

Complete champion has a lot also. Good feats, though many domain ones are pretty iffy. Once a day is just no enough, even with the opportunity to spend turn attempts to get more uses.

Complete scoundrel. I want to like it, I really do, but it is just ... meh.

Elephant · Jun 23, 2007

I'm interested in what people might have to say - those three books seem to repeat ground that was covered in Complete Warrior/Arcane/Adventurer. I guess the "original four" Completes aren't so complete after all.

Nifft · Jun 23, 2007

Reserve Feats -- Brings a new mechanic to the table; makes spellcasters able to participate in more fights each day, and allows a nice "escalation" mechanic where you reserve your big spells for after you have tried a bunch of weaker effects. Allows spellcasters to act more like Martial Adepts or Warlocks while retaining their ability to drop the hammer of doom.

Luck Feats -- What some argue is the most powerful Domain ability, now available for everyone, multiple times per day! It's a meta-game mechanic that's fun.

That's all I got.

Cheers, -- N

Crothian · Jun 23, 2007

Each adds on in great ways. Expecting the first complete books to be complete would be like expecting the Never Ending Story to ...well, you know never end.

Complete Mage is by far the best. It has great support for specialist wizards. The reserve feats are also really cool and I love how they have changed the game.

Complete Scoundrel has some cool things in the tricks and prestige classes. But the luck feats that allow rerolls I'm not so big on.

Complete Champion has some great things like the domain feats but then I think they spend too much time with the greyhawk deities. And people say there is no greyhawk support.

Ogrork the Mighty · Jun 23, 2007

I love Complete Champion. Best of the bunch IMO. I use Complete Mage next as much. Then Complete Scoundrel.

Twowolves · Jun 23, 2007

Crothian said:
Complete Mage is by far the best. It has great support for specialist wizards. The reserve feats are also really cool and I love how they have changed the game.

Complete Scoundrel has some cool things in the tricks and prestige classes. But the luck feats that allow rerolls I'm not so big on.

Note the parts I bolded above. Both the Mage and Scoundrel books include new subsystems (reserve feats and tricks) and a ton of material that supports those systems. So instead of more support for spellcasters and sneaky gits, you get new systems that change the game, not insignificantly. If that's what you want, great. If you were looking for more mainstream PrCs, feats and spells, I don't think they are worth the price of admission.

Complete Champion, I haven't had much chance to look over, but what little I've seen, it's a bit too much like the old 2nd ed "Complete Priest's Handbook", with just a bit too much "how to make your own pantheon" stuff (or Greyhawk specific stuff) to make it terribly useful for the price.

All of the above is, of course, just Twowolves' opinion.

VictorC · Jun 23, 2007

While I use all three only "Mage" and "Scoundrel" would I actually recomend. Complete Champion was roughly one third affiliations, which is awsome if you love affiliations. I do not, never was able to get into them. All the rest just seemed blaa, just my opinion.

Shadeydm · Jun 23, 2007

I love the Complete Scoundrel there is something in it for every class and plenty of Rogue love obviously.

rgard · Jun 24, 2007

Waylander said:
I've read some positive and negative comments about the "new" Complete series and I'd be grateful if any one who owns any of the three books could highlight what the strengths are from each one.

Commenting on the weaknesses is OK but I'd rather the thread stayed positive if ay all possible!

I have all three. Complete Mage is my favorite of the bunch. I really like the PrCs and reserve feats.

I'm glad I bought the other 2. Both are good as well and are seeing use in my campaign. It's just that I alway prefer to play wizards, sorcerers and warlocks.

If I played more rogues or more clerics, the emphasis would be on the other two books.

Thanks,
Rich