E6: The Game Inside D&D

Aegir · Jul 2, 2007

rycanada said:
Part of me thinks I should just start cranking out an E6 setting.

That probably is a way to go, and keeping with what seems to have become the theme for E6, it should be a community project. It could start with a sort of outline, basically an outline of what a world governed by E6 rules would be like.

Me personally, I suspect it'd be more "real," meaning instead of the world being defined by a handfull of uber powerful characters, likely power would be defined by ownership of land, control of armies, nations, economies, and who holds land, sea, and possibly air superiority.

Magic would certainly have some "mass destruction" ability, but most of it would be stripped away from a world that caps out at fireball and lightning bolt. Certainly mages would be powerful soldiers, but their ability to fell entire armies would be severely limited. I could see this world replacing the usual small group of powerful mages with legions, where war wizards are more like archers then nuclear weapons.

For example, if you were assuming this world's races were all your standard races (Elves, Dwarves, Humans, etc), I suspect Orcs would be an incredibly powerful force, simply by their sheer numbers, followed closely by humans, as they tend to be nearly as quick to multiply, but more intelligent. Elves typically depend on magic and their connection to nature, so they'd likely be a highly defensive race, holding small, heavily defended forest strongholds with regimens of wizards and archers.

Thats... very Forgotten Realms. but then, the way Faerun is designed given its power level is a little odd anyway.

So... just getting the ball (and creative juices) rolling.

wolfpunk · Jul 2, 2007

GrolloStoutfoam thanks, it was just a thought, but certainly gives some real advantage to the favored class.

I talked to my group about it, and they are a little to high level happy to go for it long term I think. I am trying to help them understand that the game isn't any different for the first six levels of play, and that after that, they will be some of the strongest characters in the world.

They point out that balors, dragons, titans, and so on will be unbeatable. I point out that for the most part, they should be. I took time to point out all the creatures that the DMG shows experience for 6-th 7th level characters going all the way up to CR 13-14. That covers probably two thirds of the monster manual's monsters.

The only hiccup I as a DM am having is with the disappearance of magical items like rings and staves.

GrolloStoutfoam · Jul 2, 2007

wolfpunk said:
The only hiccup I as a DM am having is with the disappearance of magical items like rings and staves.

You're welcome wolfpunk! One of our group pointed out this shortcoming as well and I thought it could be countered with pre-req feats rather then a caster level requirement. Maybe craft:rods require craft:wands and craft:staves would require both wands and rods. Craft:Ring would require the maker to have craft:Wondrous item and craft:Magic arms/armor instead.

Kinda makes staves and rings powerful, wondrous, something to be treasured and feared (ala Lord of the Rings).

Gods, I want to play this system so bad I'm thinking of starting another group! (my wife would kill me :\ ... unless I could get her to play

)

wolfpunk · Jul 2, 2007

I have been looking at the CL requirements and many of the rings have a CL of 7th or lower. I am tempted to roll Forge Ring into the Craft Wonderous Item feat, and allow players to craft any ring that they meet the CL of.

Crafting Rods and Staves seems to be out of the picture. The lowest staves have a CL of 8.

Dragonblade275 · Jul 2, 2007

wolfpunk said:
Thanks, Dragonblade,that is a great article.

You're welcome. Glad you liked it.

wolfpunk said:
Question, has anyone thought of letting a character who takes levels in their favored class to gain one level in that class above the level 6 maximum? For example, a dwarf could be a level 7 fighter, a half orc could be a level 7 barbarian. Humans and Half-elves could take 1 extra level of whatever class they took at first level.

This is the first I've heard of it. I wonder if Ry has thought of it?

I think that could be a decent prerequisite to Ry's feat chain for 7th level earlier in this thread... In other words, the 7th level could only be taken in the character's race's favored class and it would take four feats to do it... 20,000 XP instead of the usual amount to gain 7th level.

I hope Ry weighs in on this.

wolfpunk · Jul 2, 2007

If the idea of a 7th level was allow, I am assuming it would work like this, character has 15,000 XP and is now 6th level, upon gaining another 20,000 XP for a total of 35,000 XP and gains the benefits of a seventh level in their favored class. They then gain a bonus feat every 5,000 XP thereafter, starting with the first at 40,000 XP.

What if the player wanted to make a dwarven fighter 3/rogue 3, could they then take a fourth level of fighter? Or is it strictly for characters that take all 6 levels in a favored class?

The benefits I see would be extra hit dice, extra skill points and higher max ranks in class skills, possible bab increase, possible access to higher level spells/slots, extra class abilities.

GrolloStoutfoam · Jul 2, 2007

wolfpunk said:
What if the player wanted to make a dwarven fighter 3/rogue 3, could they then take a fourth level of fighter? Or is it strictly for characters that take all 6 levels in a favored class?

The benefits I see would be extra hit dice, extra skill points and higher max ranks in class skills, possible bab increase, possible access to higher level spells/slots, extra class abilities.

My inclination is only to allow characters who have all 6 of their levels in their favored class. Multiclassing has it's own benefits and I think a reward for someone who stays with the favored class would be warranted. This may be type casting but there is a reason why dwarves are such fearsome fighters in fantasy novels and movies.

Granted it allows any and all options for humans and half-elves but IMO it balances against all the racial abilities of the others. (I only have core books, but that is all I've ever really needed

)

Aegir · Jul 2, 2007

One thought regarding this system is how saves are handled. Generally the bump saves get in the first level of a class/PrC isn't that big a deal over the course of 20 levels, as things even out anyway, but 6 levels wouldn't really even anything out.

This wouldn't be an issue for a single-class PC, but if you get someone taking 2/3/4 classes, or PrCs, suddenly you've got a guy with saves that are seriously out of whack. Anyone consider this a potential issue?

GrolloStoutfoam · Jul 2, 2007

Aegir said:
One thought regarding this system is how saves are handled. Generally the bump saves get in the first level of a class/PrC isn't that big a deal over the course of 20 levels, as things even out anyway, but 6 levels wouldn't really even anything out.

This wouldn't be an issue for a single-class PC, but if you get someone taking 2/3/4 classes, or PrCs, suddenly you've got a guy with saves that are seriously out of whack. Anyone consider this a potential issue?

I think the system has a built in check. To get these saves the character has to make a trade off which results in lower spell progression, BAB, and fewer class abilities. Not worth it in my opinion as I can just have my cleric take feats that bump my reflex save while having full caster progression and BAB +5.

Also the character would have to qualify for the PrC at or before 6th level to get all the benefits of the PrC level. I think the intent is, if a character would qualify for the PrC after 6th level, they can take the PrC class abilities as feat chains. This means they get the special abilities of the PrC but not the increase in BAB, saves, caster level. Just my interpretation though, I could be wrong.

green slime · Jul 2, 2007

I suppose it could be an issue if you allow all the various base classes from various sources, but only for a melee character, really.

Spellcasters need to stay focused.

A melee character could theoretically do Fighter 1/Ranger 1/Paladin 1/Duskblade 1/Knight 1/Hexblade 1 or Swashbuckler 1 or somesuch.