E6: The Game Inside D&D

Ry · Jun 28, 2007

Thanks Khuxan, those two feats are exactly how I did it in my game.

When we were originally talking about it, my players discussed something like "build up first, then gestalt out" and while I found that was a bit of a rules-beast, doing the same thing with feats is A-OK.

Ry · Jun 28, 2007

Khuxan said:
For new feats, I think the most pressing issue is for multiclass casters to get more spellcasting.

I think spells known for spontaneous casters is right behind it. I would use:

Sorcerous Art
Prerequisites: Character level 6, ability to cast spells of 2 different levels spontaneously.
Benefit: You gain two spells known - one for your highest level spell slot, and one for a lower level slot.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times.

Ry · Jun 28, 2007

green slime said:
I was wondering if you had considered making the various class abilities that normally would only come into play after level 6 available as feats?
I know there is already an Epic feat "Extra Wildshape" for instance. So in your experience, would you allow a "venom immunity" or "Wild shape:large" feats?

I'm hesitant with regards to any ability that you HAVE to be over 6th level to get - just as I am with a BAB higher than +6 or spells over 3rd.

I'd be more likely to allow a feat where you choose 1 animal that's Large size with 6 or fewer hit dice, and can wildshape into that animal in addition to your normal list. As an add-on for flavor, the requirement that the Druid had seen a specimen of that animal at some point, (no desert druids of a polar bear) make sense as well.

Ry · Jun 28, 2007

Emryys said:
I'm wondering if the pdf "Buy the numbers" could add flexibility to the costs of buys feats/abilities after 6th Lvl...

I haven't seen Buy the Numbers (I mean, I know it exists but that's it). Perhaps it could be a good way to price things that are worth the same as a feat to a 6th-level character? That said, I would still want to keep anything that isn't available by 6th level out of E6.

el-remmen · Jun 28, 2007

I am seriously considering using a version of this for Aquerra 2.0 - the total re-imaging on my setting I am planning for its 20th Anniversary.

evilbob · Jun 28, 2007

rycanada said:
I allow races with level adjustments, but if there are only 6 levels, how do they work?
If you use races with a level adjustment, the 6th level cap is a big issue. Use the point buy rules in the DMG as follows:
LA Point buy
+0 32
+1 25
+2 18
+3 10
+4 00

To clarify: are you saying that +LA races should start with zero LA, but use the point buy you've listed above based on what their LA would have been?

rycanada said:
Conviction
...
The Death Flag
...

I'm also curious to know if in your extensive playtesting, did you always/often/occationally use house rules such as these? The first one seems like a pretty standard "action-point-like" boost to PCs that makes the game more cinematic, but the second rule about never dying unless you choose to seems much more game-altering. I'm just trying to understand the extent to which your own house rules may have flavored your players' experiences, and whether or not you've tried not using them and if that made a difference to your playtesting.

GreatLemur · Jun 28, 2007

I don't think I bothered to post when you brought this up previously, rycanada, but I'm really interested in this idea. I strongly prefer the idea of gaining lots of interesting new options as opposed to stacking on more raw power.

Even accepting hit points as an abstraction describing defensive ability rather than the physical capacity to survive bodily damage, human characters with 100+ HP just don't feel right to me. Attack bonuses so huge that attacks are only rolled in case of an auto-fail result of "1" don't feel right, either. And games where the PCs' every posession is magical just seem obnoxious.

Meanwhile, picking new feats is just about the coolest part of the whole game.

But I'm not a really big fan of experience points, personally. If I were to use this system, I'd probably abstract feat gain the same way I would level gain. That is, if the PCs have accomplished something major, they gain a level next time they have some down time.

Ry · Jun 28, 2007

evilbob said:
To clarify: are you saying that +LA races should start with zero LA, but use the point buy you've listed above based on what their LA would have been?

I'm also curious to know if in your extensive playtesting, did you always/often/occationally use house rules such as these? The first one seems like a pretty standard "action-point-like" boost to PCs that makes the game more cinematic, but the second rule about never dying unless you choose to seems much more game-altering. I'm just trying to understand the extent to which your own house rules may have flavored your players' experiences, and whether or not you've tried not using them and if that made a difference to your playtesting.

It's important to me to keep the rule changes minimal, because players really don't want to read a lot outside of the game and they get frustrated if there's too many house rules.

Conviction, in one form or another, has been part of my games for quite a while (although the ability to get actions was a recent change).

The death flag is new to E6, and it's only been used in 1 session worth of playtesting (I used it with another system and ported it over).

I allowed Giant and Faen races and racial class levels from AE, but not the spryte.

Otherwise it's been straight D&D.

I do like to think of E6 and the drama rules as separate: One defines character building. The other gives PCs the chance to improve the odds a few times a day, and reduces lethality.

Ry · Jun 28, 2007

GreatLemur said:
I don't think I bothered to post when you brought this up previously, rycanada, but I'm really interested in this idea. I strongly prefer the idea of gaining lots of interesting new options as opposed to stacking on more raw power.

Even accepting hit points as an abstraction describing defensive ability rather than the physical capacity to survive bodily damage, human characters with 100+ HP just don't feel right to me. Attack bonuses so huge that attacks are only rolled in case of an auto-fail result of "1" don't feel right, either. And games where the PCs' every posession is magical just seem obnoxious.

Meanwhile, picking new feats is just about the coolest part of the whole game.

In this, we are of one mind. I love new feats, btw, and I think they rightly earn a lot of attention from game designers. They're ... just ... neat.

GreatLemur said:
But I'm not a really big fan of experience points, personally. If I were to use this system, I'd probably abstract feat gain the same way I would level gain. That is, if the PCs have accomplished something major, they gain a level next time they have some down time.

I'm sure that an ad-hoc "gain a feat" approach would work absolutely 100% with this system. I used to do that with other systems (power up when the story makes it appropriate) and given the fact that the upper end of the power curve flattens off, this should go quite smoothly under that assumption.

Ry · Jun 28, 2007

evilbob said:
To clarify: are you saying that +LA races should start with zero LA, but use the point buy you've listed above based on what their LA would have been?

That's how I do it. But I haven't had takers below 18 point buy.