E6: The Game Inside D&D

E6 6th Fighter (+12)
(cost: 75,000 xp or almost 13th level (78,000 xp), calculated in order to guesstimate appropriate wealth comparisson: Assumption around 88,000 gp accumulated)

Grognard the Grey
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Human (32 point buy)
Str 18 (17+1), Dex 12, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 11, Cha 8

HD: 6d10+18 (~=55 hp)
AC: 21 (Flatfooted 20)
DR 3/-

Melee Attack (Great Sword): +13/+8 2d6+10 19-20/x2
(PA-3): +10/+5 2d6+16 19-20/x2
(Leap Attack, PA-3): +10 2d6+19 19-20/x2
(Heedless Charge, +LA, +PA -6 to AC ) +13 2d6+28 19-20/x2

Saves:
Fort: +11 Refl: +5 Will: +8

Feats:
Cleave, Combat Brute, Combat Expertise, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Imp Bullrush, Imp Grapple, Imp Sunder, Imp Toughness, Imp Unarmed Strike, Indomitable Soul, Iron Will, Leap Attack, Leap of the Heavens, Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Shock Trooper, Steadfast Determination, Weapon Focus (Great Sword), WS (Grt Swd).

Skills:
Climb: 9 rks + 4 +5
Craft (armour): 9 rks +2
Jump: 9 rks + 4 + Leap of the Heavens.
Ride: 9 rks + 1
Swim: 9 rks + 4 +5

Equipment:
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+2 Flaming Great Sword of Giant Bane (32,000 gp)
+2 Dwarven Plate (Adamantine Full Plate) (20,500 gp)
+2 Cloak of Resistance (4,000 gp)
Gloves of Swimming & Climbing (6,250 gp)
Potions of Barkskin, Bull's Strength, Cure X Wounds, Darkvision, Fly, Haste, Heroism, Keen Edge, Neutralize Poison, Water Breathing.

knight_isa said:

Actually, wizards wouldn't take Improved Spell Knowledge, because they aren't spontaneous casters and thus would not benefit.

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Well, wizards do get the free spells "researched" every level, since they're not going up levels, technically, it's basically the "Free Spells per Level" feat. The two free spells they get per level roughly coincide with what Sorcerers get in Spells Known per level.

green slime said:

E6 6th Fighter (+12)
(cost: 75,000 xp or almost 13th level (78,000 xp), calculated in order to guesstimate appropriate wealth comparisson: Assumption around 88,000 gp accumulated)

Feats:
Cleave, Combat Brute, Combat Expertise, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Imp Bullrush, Imp Grapple, Imp Imp Sunder, Toughness, Imp Unarmed Strike, Indomitable Soul, Iron Will, Leap Attack, Leap of the Heavens, Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Shock Trooper, Steadfast Determination, Weapon Focus (Great Sword), WS (Grt Swd).

Click to expand...

See, now that's impressive. Right there is a *lot* of feats you'd never usually take as a fighter, and you've ended up with a really good all-around combatant with a lot of options every round.

You can't make a 13th level character that well rounded.

Class point buy system

I had tried to do something like this myself. I was never able to test it, but it broke down to characters being 9-10th level and then only advancing bit by bit. It was created for a PBEM where I've noticed advancing is slow, so I did this. While the characters may remain at the level they are, advancement will not stop. I will be rewarding Class Points that the players can use to improve any number of a character’s aspects. Whether it is adding class abilities, improving attributes, adding skills or adding feats, Class Points are spent in the stead of an all at once improvement that a level in a class provides.

Here is a sampling of the break-down of I wrote on how Class Points can be spent:
Skills (there are no cross-class skills): 1 point per raise/
2 points for a skill trick (Complete Scoundrel)
Feat: 3 points per feat (only one feat per reward session)
Base Attack Bonus: 2 points per raise (only one raise per reward session)
Hit Dice: 1 point per 1d4
2 points per 1d6
etc.
(only one hit die can be purchased per reward session/ hit die yield a minimum of 2 hp)
Class Ability: (Ex) 2 points (including increased weapon/armor proficiency)
(Sp) 3 points
(Su) 4 points
I opened class abilities to feat buy: In E6 because you want to keep characters from the "wuxia" level, you might do this, but probably not any of the Sp or Su class abilities. Here I wrote: Each Class ability is like a feat in that it has Prerequisites. Each Class Ability has the prerequisites of the Class Abilities that come before it on the matrix. [in essence I made class abilities like talent trees I guess) (for example, a Rogue’s Evasion Class ability (Ex) costs 2 Class Points and has Trapfinding and Sneak Attack +1D6 as its prerequisite.) If a class ability has a prerequisite that is fulfilled by a class ability from a class the character already possesses, the character need not purchase that ability again. For instance, if a character has Evasion from his Rogue Class and wishes to purchase Still Mind from the Monk Class (presuming the other prerequisites to Still Mind are also possessed) the character can count his Rogue’s Evasion as fulfilling the prerequisite. As long as a character has any feats, the bonus feat class ability is considered fulfilled. “Bonus Feat” cannot be purchased as a “Class Ability”… feats must be paid for with the feat’s cost.


It’s important to realize that with this Class Point breakdown, you are not limited to any one class. Once Class Points begin being rewarded, every feat and class ability is available to you as long as you meet the pre-requisites.
One final note. It is possible to never increase your BAB or skill ranks again. You can spend all your points from here on out on increasing your character’s strength, and that is fine. However, a more well-balanced improvement (spending some points on hit die, some on saves, a few on feats, etc) may be more beneficial. If you want to spend them all on hit die, however, no one will stop you.

I wanted to issue 3-6 Class points per every so often... if it took too long for PBEM to finish an adventure I would do it quicker, if the individual adventures went by at a decent pace I would do it after successful finish.
I really like your take on this though. I think I would use an XP point buy, rather than switching that mechanic like I did... that would keep things easier by keeping the terminology the same. Alas, as I said, I never got to play that way, so I never tested it, whereas you've tested this. Sounds good.


{and yay, my first post here, even though I've been registered for years!}

david

OK, just to throw this out visually, this should be, I hope, the expected number of feats for an E6 character compared to the level of a normal DND character, based on XP earned.

Note everything at and prior to 6 is the normal character-level feats. After that, look at it go! I'm hoping this is right.

58 @ Lv 20?! Wow. First thing that comes to mind is, this system really needs some feats to be tweaked so they can be taken multiple times. I'm sure you can find more than enough if you allow every WotC splatbook ever, but having done that in the past, its simply more of a headache then its worth.

I really like the idea of making feats of some higher level class abilities, or perhaps making feat chains of some of the better PrCs out there (since this system really kills PrCs). Perhaps some of this sort of thing can be tied to total XP (like requiring X amount of XP before you can take it), or simply have them require more XP to purchase then your usual feat. Or, maybe theres an initial feat required that costs the same as multiple feats, but is required for the chain.

Koewn said:

See, now that's impressive. Right there is a *lot* of feats you'd never usually take as a fighter, and you've ended up with a really good all-around combatant with a lot of options every round.

You can't make a 13th level character that well rounded.

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Yeah, I was impressed actually (2d6+28 on a charge!?) . I wasn't trying to max him out, either. I just went for plain vanilla.

I did notice that there are a lot of kewl feats seem to require Dex 13, though.

Would you let people take skill points instead of the feat? And if so, how many would you get - 4 maybe?

This is assuming the existence of a skill focus feat that gives +3 to a single skill - or maybe you'd just rely on people taking the feat multiple times? If so, would it stack?

jimbojones said:

Would you let people take skill points instead of the feat? And if so, how many would you get - 4 maybe?

This is assuming the existence of a skill focus feat that gives +3 to a single skill - or maybe you'd just rely on people taking the feat multiple times? If so, would it stack?

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There is a feat which grants 5 skill points. You can take it multiple times. You aren't allowed to break the rank limit in any individual skill of 9 (level +3) if its a class skill, or 4 if its a cross-class skill.

Also note that there are an amazing number of feats which grant bonuses to skills. You could skill get quite a high value in any skill if you decided to focus on it.