E6: The Game Inside D&D

I quickly grabbed access to a computer (I'm clearly an addict):

For the spells thing, what I'd like to see (and what I'd do if I had more time and more books here on my vacation) is another set of feats to handle the spellcasting development for multiclass catch-up. If we ditched the other feats, and wanted something slower, what about this:

Spell Advancement (1)
Prereq: Ability to cast at least 2 0th-level spells per day, bonus spell slot, 1st level
Benefit: You gain the ability to cast 0 1st-level spells per day.

Spell Advancement (2)
Prereq: Ability to cast at least 2 1st-level spells per day, bonus spell slot, 2nd level
Benefit: You gain the ability to cast 0 2nd-level spells per day.

Spell Advancement (3)
Prereq: Ability to cast at least 2 2nd-level spells per day, bonus spell slot, 3rd level
Benefit: You gain the ability to cast 0 3rd-level spells per day.

Vicar In A Tutu said:

This rocks. I'm gonna test this with my group.

Click to expand...

I am eager to hear other peoples' playtesting experiences. Let us know how it goes!

jeffh said:

A couple of questions about Conviction.

First of all, it says you can spend 1 Conviction to roll an extra d20 on a check. Is that word "check" meant to be taken literally, or can it be applied to attacks and saves as well? (It is clear the reroll for using 2 conviction can.)

Secondly, there is no @ symbol next to the ability to gain an extra standard action. Again, is this deliberate, meaning it can be done out of turn?

Click to expand...

1. Should apply to everything. Also, since Conviction is used with Players Roll All the Dice, it applies to defensive rolls and save breakers as well.

2. That's a mistake. Should be an @ there. I'll edit it.

Also, I updated Conviction to be 6 points base, 6 points with death flag. 5 looked just a touch low to me, and 5 was a clawback from the earlier 5+Level, which was too much at level 6.

Interesting system. I may have to give it a try.

What intrgues me is that now magical armour is way more valuable. Each +1 to your AC is a huge difference when a "Epic" 6th level fighter is maybe +8 or so to attack.

rycanada said:

I quickly grabbed access to a computer (I'm clearly an addict):

For the spells thing, what I'd like to see (and what I'd do if I had more time and more books here on my vacation) is another set of feats to handle the spellcasting development for multiclass catch-up. If we ditched the other feats, and wanted something slower, what about this:

Spell Advancement (1)
Prereq: Ability to cast at least 2 0th-level spells per day, bonus spell slot, 1st level
Benefit: You gain the ability to cast 0 1st-level spells per day.

Spell Advancement (2)
Prereq: Ability to cast at least 2 1st-level spells per day, bonus spell slot, 2nd level
Benefit: You gain the ability to cast 0 2nd-level spells per day.

Spell Advancement (3)
Prereq: Ability to cast at least 2 2nd-level spells per day, bonus spell slot, 3rd level
Benefit: You gain the ability to cast 0 3rd-level spells per day.

Click to expand...

A distinct possibility. There are all sorts of wonky effects, and it is difficult to see what the result is without creating some characters. Would these feats stack with ordinary spellcasting? Thus effectively doubling the number of spells granted for a specific Stat?

Secondly, it doesn't allow the 1st wizard / 5th Cleric to advance beyond "0" 2nd level (+Stat) spells.

I think I'd prefer:

Caster Insight (Spells per Day)
Prerequisites: Character level 6. At least 1 level in a spellcasting class.
Benefit: Select a spellcasting class you already possess. You gain another level in that class, with respect to Spells per Day. You gain no other benefits with respect to that class.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, and stacks. You may not, however, exceed the 6th level casting ability with this feat.
Example: Bob the 4th Fighter/ 2nd Wizard takes this feat. He now may cast a number of spells per day as if he were a 3rd level wizard, but his caster level for all other purposes remains at 2nd level.

Caster Insight (Caster level)
Prerequisites: Character level 6. At least 1 level in a spellcasting class.
Benefit: Select a spellcasting class you already possess. You gain another level in that class, with respect to your actual casting level. You gain no other benefits with respect to that class.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, and stacks. You may not, however, exceed the 6th level with this feat.
Example: Bob the 4th Fighter/ 2nd Wizard takes this feat. He now casts spells as if he were a 3rd level wizard (magic missile sends off two missiles), but the number of spells he may cast per day and the number of spells he knows, remain unchanged.

A valid question then becomes: If it is valid for a multiclassed spellcaster to continue to develop spellcasting ability in a class they apparently showed little favour in while developing, shouldn't it also be valid for a 1st Wizard / 4th Cleric / 1st Fighter character to gain access to Weapon Specialisation, and eventually BAB +6 and the iterative attack it implies?!?

Further more, consider the popular Fighter/Rogue combination, which now loses a whole attack, and is incapable of Manyshot.

The above question is quite a conundrum, because we seem generally far more ready to allow spellcasters the benefit of the doubt, but are very quick to stifle fighters and to me, once given thought, this question tends to lend itself to a negative answer.

Sqwonk said:

Interesting system. I may have to give it a try.

What intrgues me is that now magical armour is way more valuable. Each +1 to your AC is a huge difference when a "Epic" 6th level fighter is maybe +8 or so to attack.

Click to expand...

+13, more likely (see example above)

This is a great idea! If I ever DM 3e again, I'm definitely using this system.

rycanada said:

I quickly grabbed access to a computer (I'm clearly an addict):

For the spells thing, what I'd like to see (and what I'd do if I had more time and more books here on my vacation) is another set of feats to handle the spellcasting development for multiclass catch-up. If we ditched the other feats, and wanted something slower, what about this:

Spell Advancement (1)
Prereq: Ability to cast at least 2 0th-level spells per day, bonus spell slot, 1st level
Benefit: You gain the ability to cast 0 1st-level spells per day.

Spell Advancement (2)
Prereq: Ability to cast at least 2 1st-level spells per day, bonus spell slot, 2nd level
Benefit: You gain the ability to cast 0 2nd-level spells per day.

Spell Advancement (3)
Prereq: Ability to cast at least 2 2nd-level spells per day, bonus spell slot, 3rd level
Benefit: You gain the ability to cast 0 3rd-level spells per day.

Click to expand...

Spell Advancement (3) would allow a Bard to cast third level spells (normally not available until 7th level).

green slime said:

A valid question then becomes: If it is valid for a multiclassed spellcaster to continue to develop spellcasting ability in a class they apparently showed little favour in while developing, shouldn't it also be valid for a 1st Wizard / 4th Cleric / 1st Fighter character to gain access to Weapon Specialisation, and eventually BAB +6 and the iterative attack it implies?!?

Further more, consider the popular Fighter/Rogue combination, which now loses a whole attack, and is incapable of Manyshot.

The above question is quite a conundrum, because we seem generally far more ready to allow spellcasters the benefit of the doubt, but are very quick to stifle fighters and to me, once given thought, this question tends to lend itself to a negative answer.

Click to expand...

I was thinking that, too. If you allow multi-class casters to recover, then you're really encouraging multi-class casters, since eventually they'll be as good as single-class casters AND whatever else they picked.

I think that I'll just keep Extra Slot (or perhaps some variant thereof) and call it good. There are enough base classes now that model the multi-class caster (like the duskblade) that I don't think it will be a problem.

EDIT: I don't have Complete Mage, but from what I hear reserve feats might fill that gap somewhat, too.

green slime said:

The above question is quite a conundrum, because we seem generally far more ready to allow spellcasters the benefit of the doubt, but are very quick to stifle fighters and to me, once given thought, this question tends to lend itself to a negative answer.

Click to expand...

A very good point. Off the top of my head, just to toss some things out:

1) A feat that gives you a virtual BAB increase (much like many of theses spellcaster feats have only given a virtual spellcaster level). So you'd eventually have a virtual BAB of +8 or +12 to qualify for feats with, without actually having that BAB.

2) A feat that improves your BAB, but only up to +6, and/or after that, only improves your secondary attack (and, if your secondary attack hits +5, maybe lets you into a tertiary attack). That kind of follows with the caster feats that are improving slots-per-day (obviously more powerful, but I'm just tossing stuff out)

Dunno. Just tossing wood on a fire. These are the sorts of things you'd need to look at.

I almost think the "Virtual BAB" feat, with just a simple Extra Slots and Extra Spell Known feat would cover all the bases - virtual BAB would get you those high level feats, though at a cost.