Ranger/Scout build

blargney the second · Jul 4, 2007

Holy Bovine said:
I think I'm in love. Great build - I wouldn't have thought of the crossbow though. Any reason you prefer that over a traditional composite (mighty) longbow?

Four reasons:
1) 1/2 Dex to damage.
2) Skirmish range increased from 30' to 60'.
3) Static damage bonuses + decent threat range.
4) Style!

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about getting multiple attacks with skirmish damage. Just do the one hit, and make it count.

Hammerhead · Jul 4, 2007

blargney the second said:
Four reasons:
1) 1/2 Dex to damage.
2) Skirmish range increased from 30' to 60'.
3) Static damage bonuses + decent threat range.
4) Style!

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about getting multiple attacks with skirmish damage. Just do the one hit, and make it count.

Why not? Half Dex damage on one attack versus getting several attacks, each with skirmish damage, using Greater Manyshot?

blargney the second · Jul 4, 2007

Really, it depends on personal preference more than anything. If you'd rather make more attacks and a huge penalty to hit with all of them, then Manyshot is fine. If you'd rather make sure your shot counts for something, then it's a significant opportunity cost that you could use to get other abilities. *shrug*

Finally, note that getting Improved Skirmish earlier effectively gives you the same amount of damage that you'd get with Manyshot, but without the penalty to attack.

AnonymousOne · Jul 4, 2007

Holy Bovine said:
Any reason you prefer that over a traditional composite (mighty) longbow?

It increases the range of the skirmish from 30' to 60'

Also keep in mind ... this guy has never pick up a PHB before, and having him keep track of spells is not something that I think he wants to do.

I'm looking at a solely martial class for the time being.

EDIT: BTW, thanks everyone for the advice. If we drop spellcasting and go with the bonus feats we might have some space for some melee feats as well.

joshhg · Jul 4, 2007

Hammerhead said:
If you're using Swift Hunter, you'll want to be going primarily Ranger. The full BAB combined with spells that you'll want to use, such as Hunter's Mercy, Arrow Mind, Listening Lorecall, etc. make it the ideal choice.

Now, while I'll agree with this, as Ranger 16/Scout 4 is the primary build. However, if you have Complete Mage, I like a 15/5 progression, because a alt class feature in there, Spell reflection allows you to reflect spells that miss you back to your opponent. For this you give up evasion from the Ranger, but you get it earlier with the Scout anyways.

Also, while a archer build is great at 16/4, a reasonable alternative is scout 18/ Ranger 2, which gives you a better average between melee and ranged combat, if you take Spring Attack and Point Blank Shot.

The best place, IMO, for learning about the Swift Hunter build is The Swift Hunter's Handbook on the WotC CO forums.

thorian · Jul 4, 2007

Here is an NPC I've tried out. The key is to move 10', then do a greater multshot. Attack and damage is pretty respectable. For example, a point blank shot:
attack: +20/20/20 = 14/BAB, 8/dex, 1/wf, 1/enh, 1/comp, -6/manyshot, 1/pb
damage: 1d8+17+6d6+2d6[holy] = 1d8/base, 5/mighty(str), 8/deadeye(dex), 1/enh, 1/pb
*(extra damage +2d6/bane, 6/undead, 4/aberration, 4/outsider(evil), 2/dragon)
So, each arrow does an average of 50 damage plus the bane or favored enemy damage if applicable.

It is not terribly optimized, and was created starting at 15th level. I would rearrange the class and feat progression if I had to start at 6th level.

Code:

Level      : 15
Build      : Ranger 11 / Scout 4
Race       : Elf, Wood
Alignment  : Neutral Good
Deity      : Gwaeron Windstrom, Mielikki
Gender     : Female
Size       : Medium
Speed      : 30 ft.

ATTRIBUTES:(36 point buy)
      Net   | Buy  Cost| Other		
STR: 20(+5) |14(+2)  6 | +2/wood elf, +4/enhancement
DEX: 27(+8) |16(+3) 10 | +2/wood elf, +6/enhancement, +3/level
CON: 16(+3) |14(+2)  6 | -2/wood elf, +4/enhancement
INT: 12(+1) |14(+2)  6 | -2/wood elf
WIS: 14(+2) |14(+2)  6 |  0/wood elf
CHA: 10( 0) |10( 0)  2 |  0/wood elf

Initiative:  +10 = +8/dex, +2/comp

HD: 11d8(66=6+5+7+6+5+1+5+7+7+7+8)/rgr-11 + 4d8(24=8+5+7+6)/sct-4
HP: 135 = 90/classes + 45/con(+3*15)

AC     : 25 = 10/base, 8/dex, 6/armor, 1/shield, 0/deflection, 0/natural
 Touch : 18 = 10/base, 8/dex, 0/armor, 0/shield, 0/deflection, 0/natural
 Flat  : 17 = 10/base, 0/dex, 6/armor, 1/shield, 0/deflection, 0/natural
*(+6/skirmish)

SAVES:
Fort +15 = 3/CON, 7/rgr-11, 1/sct-4, 4/resistance
Ref  +23 = 8/DEX, 7/rgr-11, 4/sct-4, 4/resistance
Will +10 = 2/WIS, 3/rgr-11, 1/sct-4, 4/resistance
*(immunity to magic sleep effects, +2 racial bonus vs. enchantment spells or effects)

BAB      : +14 = 11/rgr-11 + 3/sct-4
 Melee   : +19 = 14/BAB, 5/str
 Ranged  : +22 = 14/BAB, 8/dex
 Grapple : +19 = 14/BAB, 5/str

ATTACKS:
Longbow
  attack  : +25/20/15 = 14/BAB, 8/dex, 1/wf, 1/enh, 1/comp
  rapid   : +23/23/18/13 = 14/BAB, 8/dex, 1/wf, 1/enh, 1/comp, -2/rapid
  manyshot: +19/19/19 = 14/BAB, 8/dex, 1/wf, 1/enh, 1/comp, -6/manyshot
  damage  : 1d8+14 = 1d8/base, 5/mighty(str), 8/deadeye(dex), 1/enh
*(attack: +1/pb, +2/bane, +1/hg, ?)
*(damage: +1/pb, +2+6d6/skirmish, +2d6/holy, +2d6/bane, 6/undead, 4/aberration, 4/outsider(evil), 2/dragon)

FEATS:
Char  1 : point blank shot
Rgr   1 : track
Rgr   2 : rapid shot
Char  3 : precise shot
Rgr   3 : endurance
Char  6 : weapon focus (longbow)
Rgr   6 : manyshot
Char  9 : greater manyshot
Char 12 : deadeye
Sct   4 : swift hunter
Char 15 : improved skirmish
Rgr  11 : improved precise shot
Char 18 : improved favored enemy

SKILLS:  142 = 36/sct-1, 27/sct-2-4 + 77/rgr-11 + 2/rgr-sub-1  (MAX=19, CC=9)
  Rgr (6+INT): Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex)
  Sct (8+INT): Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Dex), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (n/a), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Rope (Dex)
Balance             : 10 =  0/ranks, 8/dex, 2/synergy
Climb               :  5 =  0/ranks, 5/str
Concentration       :  3 =  0/ranks, 3/con
Disable Device      : 20 = 19/ranks, 1/int
Escape Artist       :  8 =  0/ranks, 8/dex
Heal                :  2 =  0/ranks, 2/wis
Hide                : 25 = 17/ranks, 8/dex, fe
Jump                : 12 =  5/ranks, 5/str, 2/synergy
Knowledge(dungeon.) :  2 =  1/ranks, 1/int
Knowledge(geography):  2 =  1/ranks, 1/int
Knowledge(nature)   :  4 =  1/ranks, 1/int, 2/synergy
Listen              : 23 = 19/ranks, 2/wis, +2/racial, fe
Move Silently       : 25 = 17/ranks, 8/dex, fe
Ride                :  8 =  0/ranks, 8/dex
Search              : 22 = 19/ranks, 1/int, +2/racial
Sense Motive        :  2 =  0/ranks, 2/wis
Spot                : 23 = 19/ranks, 2/wis, +2/racial, fe
Survival            :  7 =  5/ranks, 2/wis, fe
Tumble              : 29 = 19/ranks, 8/dex, 2/synergy
Languages:  Common, Elven, Undercommon
*(+2 racial bonus on listen, search, spot; +2 survival when following tracks)
 (hide, listen, move silently, spot survival = +4/aberrations, +4/outsider(evil), +4/undead, +2/dragons)

CLASS ABILITIES:
Scout   1 : skirmish (+1d6), trapfinding
Ranger  1 : 1st favored enemy (undead +3+3), track, wild empathy
Ranger  2 : combat style (rapid shot)
Ranger  3 : endurance
Ranger  4 : distracting attack [PH2]
Ranger  5 : 2nd favored enemy (aberrations +2+2)
Ranger  6 : improved combat style (manyshot)
Ranger  7 : woodland stride
Ranger  8 : swift tracker
Ranger  9 : evasion
Ranger 10 : 3rd favored enemy (outsider[evil] +2+2)
Ranger 11 : combat style mastery
Scout   2 : battle fortitude +1, uncanny dodge
Scout   3 : fast movement +10 ft., skirmish (+1d6, +1 AC), trackless step
Scout   4 : bonus feat
Ranger 13 : camouflage
Ranger 15 : 4th favored enemy (dragon +2)
Ranger 17 : hide in plain sight

RACIAL ABILITIES [Elf, Wood]:
Medium Humanoid (Elf)
+2 STR, +2, DEX, -2 CON, -2 INT
Speed is 30 feet.
Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
Low-Light Vision
Weapon Proficiency: Elves receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats.
+2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. An elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it.
Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, and Sylvan.
Favored Class: Ranger.

ARMOR:
Buckler, mw (AC +1, check penalty 0)

WEAPONS:
Longbow (1d8/20x3, 110’, P)
 - Arrows [200]
Longsword (1d8/19-20x2, S)
Sickle (+0, 1d6/20x2, S)

EQUIPMENT:
Backpack
Bedroll
Belt Pouch
Chalk [10]
Explorer’s Outfit
Ink
Inkpen
Parchment [5]
Scroll Case
Waterskin

MAGIC ITEMS:
 Cost .	Description						
51,350	longbow, mighty (+5), composite, elvencraft [RotW-166], +1, holy, force [MIC-35] {cost=100/bow+300/mw+500/mighty+450/elvencraft+50000/enh}
44,000	belt of battle [MIC 73]: +2 [comp] to initiative, also 3 charges/day [][][] (charges: 1 for move action, 2 for standard action, 3 for full-round action); add +4 [enh] str, con {cost=12000+16000+16000}
41,000	bracers of archery: +1 [comp] attack; add +6 [enh] AC {cost=5000+36000}
38,000	gloves of fortunate striking [MIC 105]: re-roll attack 1/day []; add +6 [enh] dex {cost=2000+36000}
2,000	Heward’s Handy Haversack
1,800	quiver of Ehlonna
3,200	skirmisher boots [MIC-136]: +2 damage on skirmish attacks, activate 2/day as swift action to gain extra attack
16,000	vest of resistance +4 (can be added to other vest or cloak)

MONEY:
PP: 200
GP: 450
SP:  10
CP:  10

SPELLS:
Spells per Day: 1=1(2), 2=1(2), 3=0(0)
Bonus Spells (WIS 14): 1=1, 2=1, 3=0
Spell DC = 12+lvl = 10/base, 2/int14, + spell level

1: (2)
 
[][][] Accelerated Movement SC
[][][] Alarm
[][][] Animal Messenger
[][][] Arrow Mind SC
[][][] Calm Animals
[][][] Camouflage SC
[][][] Charm Animal
[][][] Delay Poison
[][][] Detect Animals or Plants
[][][] Detect Poison
[][][] Detect Snares and Pits
[][][] Embrace the Wild SC
[][][] Endure Elements
[][][] Entangle
[][][] Hawkeye SC
[][][] Hide from Animals
[][][] Hunter’s Mercy SC
[][][] Jump
[][][] Longstrider
[][][] Magic Fang
[][][] Pass without Trace
[][][] Read Magic
[][][] Resist Energy
[][][] Speak with Animals
[][][] Summon Nature's Ally I
[][][] Woodwhisp Arrow CoR
 
2: (2)
 
[][][] Barkskin
[][][] Briar Web SC
[][][] Brilliant Energy Arrow CoR
[][][] Burrow
[][][] Camouflage, Mass SC
[][][] Cat's Grace
[][][] Cure Light Wounds
[][][] Exacting Shot SC
[][][] Hold Animal
[][][] Listening Lorecall SC
[][][] Owl's Wisdom
[][][] Protection from Energy
[][][] Snare
[][][] Speak with Plants
[][][] Spellslayer Arrow CoR
[][][] Spike Growth
[][][] Summon Nature's Ally II
[][][] Tremorsense SC
[][][] Wind Wall
 
3: (0)
 
[][][] Arrowsplit CoR
[][][] Arrow Storm SC
[][][] Command Plants
[][][] Cure Moderate Wounds
[][][] Darkflame Arrow CoR
[][][] Darkvision
[][][] Diminish Plants
[][][] Find the Gap SC
[][][] Forestfold SC
[][][] Magic Fang, Greater
[][][] Neutralize Poison
[][][] Plant Growth
[][][] Reduce Animal
[][][] Remove Disease
[][][] Repel Vermin
[][][] Summon Nature's Ally III
[][][] Tree Shape
[][][] Water Walk
 
4: (0)
 
[][][] Animal Growth
[][][] Bloodfreeze Arrow CoR
[][][] Commune with Nature
[][][] Cure Serious Wounds
[][][] Deeper Darkvision SC
[][][] Doublestrike Arrow CoR
[][][] Foebane SC
[][][] Freedom of Movement
[][][] Nondetection
[][][] Shadow Arrow CoR
[][][] Summon Nature's Ally IV
[][][] Surefooted Stride, Mass SC
[][][] Swampstride SC
[][][] Treestride

AnonymousOne · Jul 5, 2007

wow, I appreciate the feedback. Given the kind of character history that we're looking at. We're probably going to drop the spellcasting. Yeah it's a power drop, but I think that we won't like the flavor of the spellcaster and would rather have the militant combat elite.

satori01 · Jul 5, 2007

blargney the second said:
Honestly, I wouldn't worry about getting multiple attacks with skirmish damage. Just do the one hit, and make it count.

The Problem is + 5d6 at 20th level is not really a hit that is going to count. A Paladin using an oversized lance in two hands with Power Attack, Spirited Charge, Divine Might, Smite Evil and a Bless Weapon spell is a hit that will make it count.

Combat effectiveness in D&D, rightly or wrongly, is more about ensuring the highest number of static modifiers as opposed to the highest # of dice rolled. We have all seen the Fireball cast by the 10th level wizard do 18 points of damage, just like we have seen the 4th level raging barbarian crit w/ a greataxe for 63 points of damage.

The philosophy of one single hit also flies in the face of the Favored Enemy ability of the Ranger class. When you can use that class ability you want to be able to deliver it as many times in a round as you possible can, which means you want to be able to make as many attacks as you can in a round.

The Favored Enemy feat from Complete Warrior is a great feat for a Ranger as it adds, (if my memory is accurate), +3 to the damage against all of your Favored Enemies. Thus at 6th level a +7 against a Favored Enemy is not outside the realm of possibility, this is of course not including STR bonuses and the like, (and a reason why X-bow may not be the best choice for ranged weapon). In a very themed adventure like say Red Hand of Doom, a gnome Ranger/Scout with the Gnome Ranger substitution levels, and Favoured Enemy : Goblinoids, and eventually Dragons will do quite well.

Darklone · Jul 5, 2007

Yeah. 28d6 per Manyshot is much better than 5d6 once per round.

Erywin · Jul 5, 2007

Also, take a look at the hunting weapon enchantment, adds I believe +4 to favored enemies, its in MIC I believe.

Cheers,
E

Ranger/Scout build

blargney the second

blargney the minute's son

Hammerhead

Explorer

blargney the second

blargney the minute's son

AnonymousOne

First Post

joshhg

First Post

thorian

Explorer

AnonymousOne

First Post

satori01

First Post

Darklone

Registered User

Erywin

First Post

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