E6: The Game Inside D&D (new revision)

Shazman · Jul 10, 2007

I think that the best approach are a few feats that only a 6th level fighter is eligible to take. If the casters get feats to be better at what they do, the same should be done for the fighter. That's what I tried to do with my feats on the E6 feat thread. Other classes might need some individual feats as well to compete with the warblade or barbarian, but I'd stick to balancing the core classes for E6 this early in the game.

kaomera · Jul 10, 2007

More fighter-only feats couldn't hurt (as long as they're balanced), but really I don't see the problem with the Fighter. You're getting four more feats than anyone else, access to Weapon Specialization (which is even more worth he feat, IMHO, in an EL6 game), full BAB, d10 hit dice... About the only real problem is that you're still really hurting for skills. If you allow Able Learner for all races, or add more feats that add skills to your class list (like City Slicker) then you could get three instances of Open-Minded with those four feats, but that only works out to an extra 2.5 skill points per level, and you're stuck with no more than 4 ranks in any cross-class skill...

I'm thinking of showing up at a local D&D meetup in the near future (only, unfortunately, it's only really "local" on a cosmological scale...), and I've been thinking of even possibly running something. Usually for a one-off I'd do something a bit higher-level; I prefer lower-level stuff, but a lot of players don't get that many chances to play at higher levels... I may end up doing EL6, instead. I think that a one-shot with level six plus, say, ten or so feats could be really cool. I'm even tempted to try and do characters up on-sight, but I'm not sure it would work out (given a limited time-frame) even with EL6 characters being so much easier to run up than a 15th or so level character... (If I get my act together and actually run something I'll be sure and post an after-action report...)

chris.crouch · Jul 10, 2007

Hierax said:
...
- Slower Level Advancement: Less XP or greater XP needed to advance each level. At least twice as much to keep roughly the same time to get to the top (I'd make it even slower than that but that's because I think that 3e advancement is way too fast).

- Feat per Level: to give more of the rewards at each step of the way.
...

I like the idea of slower advancement, but I think it'd be better if you got the extra feats between levels, sort of at the half-level points.

That way you would have advancement happening on the same timescale as standard, but less advancement at each advancement point (if that butchered piece of english makes any sense to anyone else).

Chris

Kunimatyu · Jul 10, 2007

This is a brilliant idea - it keeps the basic structure of D&D, but preserves the sweet spot as long as possible!

I think I'll be giving this a whirl the next time I run D&D. I get fed up with the ridiculous nature of certain elements -- particularly 4+ level spells -- and I can't help but think that this is one of the simplest tweaks possible to make the game conform to the genres I want to play, as opposed to getting into fantasy-superheroes.

Ry · Jul 10, 2007

Thanks! It's really nice to see all these people "getting" E6.

Ry · Jul 10, 2007

chris.crouch said:
I like the idea of slower advancement, but I think it'd be better if you got the extra feats between levels, sort of at the half-level points.

That way you would have advancement happening on the same timescale as standard, but less advancement at each advancement point (if that butchered piece of english makes any sense to anyone else).

Chris

You mean, like

1000 Level 2
3000 (Level 3 feat)
6000 Level 3
10000 (Level 4 ability point)
15000 Level 4

Shazman · Jul 10, 2007

kaomera said:
More fighter-only feats couldn't hurt (as long as they're balanced), but really I don't see the problem with the Fighter. You're getting four more feats than anyone else, access to Weapon Specialization (which is even more worth he feat, IMHO, in an EL6 game), full BAB, d10 hit dice... About the only real problem is that you're still really hurting for skills. If you allow Able Learner for all races, or add more feats that add skills to your class list (like City Slicker) then you could get three instances of Open-Minded with those four feats, but that only works out to an extra 2.5 skill points per level, and you're stuck with no more than 4 ranks in any cross-class skill...

I'm thinking of showing up at a local D&D meetup in the near future (only, unfortunately, it's only really "local" on a cosmological scale...), and I've been thinking of even possibly running something. Usually for a one-off I'd do something a bit higher-level; I prefer lower-level stuff, but a lot of players don't get that many chances to play at higher levels... I may end up doing EL6, instead. I think that a one-shot with level six plus, say, ten or so feats could be really cool. I'm even tempted to try and do characters up on-sight, but I'm not sure it would work out (given a limited time-frame) even with EL6 characters being so much easier to run up than a 15th or so level character... (If I get my act together and actually run something I'll be sure and post an after-action report...)

Yeah, but the fighter 4/barbarian 2 also has access to weapon specialization, and he's only one feat behind the fighter 6. He's getting a boost in saves and ability scores (while raging), skills, mobility, and hit points for one less feat. That's a no-brainer decision, especially when you throw in extra rage, shock trooper, and leap attack.

Kunimatyu · Jul 10, 2007

It really seems like fighter is a lost cause at this point, guys -- it's underpowered anyways, and if you're playing in a game with access to splatbooks, you have many (too many!) solid options available.

DogBackward · Jul 10, 2007

Well, I've always given fighters 4+int skill points, any two skills as class skills, and every other feat (2/6/10/14/18) as Wildcard Feats (see below). Maybe changing all the Fighter Bonus Feats to Wildcard feats, as well as the extra skill stuff, would make them worthwhile. The Wildcard Feats alone may actually do it, as they're a pretty cool unique ability, representing a very broad area of training expertise.
[sblock=Wildcard Feats]I got the idea from the Iron Heroes book, but thought the 1/day part was a little stiff.

Basically, certain Bonus Feats* become Wild Card Feats. They are left blank. At any time, you may concentrate for one full round. If you do, you may choose any Fighter Bonus Feat you qualify for, and this feat fills the Wild Card Feat slot. The feat is 'learned' until you use another Full Round action to 'learn' a different one. If you use this ability to learn a feat that grants extra HP and later trade that feat for a different one, you lose the HP that was granted by the feat, as if it were gained through a Con increase.

* All of them, in the case of the E6 Fighter.[/sblock]That was an old house rule of mine, and I completely forgot about it for this. It seems like it would work, an Wildcard Feats are a very good reason to stay full Fighter.

Kunimatyu · Jul 10, 2007

Oh, and for arcane casters who want nifty metamagic options, but can't quite put them on spells, here's a feat that takes care of that:

Sudden Metamagic:
When you take this feat, select a metamagic feat. As a swift action once per day, you may apply this metamagic feat to a spell you cast with no adjustment to the level of the spell cast.

Special: You must have a number of Sudden metamagic feats equal to the level increase of your chosen metamagic, minus one, to take this feat. For example, Empower Spell, which boosts the level of a spell by 2, has a prerequisite of 1 Sudden feat. Split Ray, which has an increase of 1, would have no prerequisites.