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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by molonel
    But the fact is, there are more people playing roleplaying games now than ever before.
    Tabletop RPGs?

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Gentlegamer
    Tabletop RPGs?
    I said roleplaying games, and I did not limit it to tabletop.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drowbane
    Hehehe, my appologies.

    Scolded by the Col, huzzah!


    I aim to please.
    No apologies needed!

    Make it kidded back by the Col and who can disagree?

    FWIW, the head of Personnel at Fireman's Fund in Chicago used to call me "Junior," and all that kept me from snarling at him was the certainty that he was a loser So I have kept in my repertoire of annoying comments...


    Gary
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  4. #164
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    Sorry Molonel,

    But you are misinformed.

    The peak sales of Dragon Magazine were back in 1983, that number was at well over at 200,000 copies per issue with a pass-around factor of 4.2 readers per copy. That was small compared to the number of estimated players in North America, 5.5 million active that year according to survey data. When 2E was released about 50% of the AD&D regular audience did not buy the game, so TSR lost half of its customer base in one fell swoop. 3E, according to WotC's own surveys has, or had, a maximum of 3.2 million players, that number including those that occasionally engage in RPG activity--the same as was true of the TSR estimate, but the active base was more than 3.2 million.

    WorC seems to be expending little in the way of advertising and promotion dollars to recruit new young players unlike TSE that expended a lot of money on TV, radio, and print ads, not to mention all the customer good will events that were sponsored--GenCon and the RPGA most notably, but Dragon Magazine was in that category for many years, say until c. 1978

    It is quite noteworthy that comparative sales figures for the PAD&D core rules books and those for 3E have never been released.

    Cheerio,
    Gary
    Last edited by Col_Pladoh; Tuesday, 24th July, 2007 at 10:48 PM.
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  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by molonel
    I said roleplaying games, and I did not limit it to tabletop.
    It's an important distinction that limits your "but the fact is" statement.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Col_Pladoh
    Sorry Molonel, But you are misinformed. The peak sales of Dragon Magazine were back in 1983, that number at 200,000 copies per issue. That was small compared to the number of estimated players in North America, 5.5 million active that year according to survey data. When 2E was released about 50% of the AD&D regular audience did not buy the game, so TSR lost half of its customer base. 3E, according to WotC's own surveys has a maximum of 3.2 million players, that number including those that occasionally engage in RPG activity--the same as was true of the TSR estimate, but the active base was more than 3.2 million. It is noteworthy that comparative sales figures for the PAD&D core rules books and those for 3E have never been rel;eased.
    You need to read what I'm saying more carefully. I said roleplaying games, and I did not limit it to tabletop, nor to D&D alone. I still haven't seen compiled sales figures which would account for all roleplaying games, including the PDF market, nor the number of players in every RPG genre. You're only addressing D&D in your comments here, and as I pointed out, D&D is not the only shop on the block, anymore.

    World of Warcraft is a roleplaying game. It might not be the sort of game you prefer to play, but it's a roleplaying game. It sold 2.4 million copies worldwide during the first 24 hours after the release of its first expansion. Add D&D to that? Add World of Darkness players? Add every small independent game company, and games like C&C, CoC, GURPS, whatever, and you have more people playing roleplaying games now than ever before.

    I am not misinformed on this subject. You are in error.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gentlegamer
    It's an important distinction that limits your "but the fact is" statement.
    Since you noticed the distinction, my assumption that you were smart enough to make it was evidently well-founded.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by molonel
    I said roleplaying games, and I did not limit it to tabletop.
    There are no electronic role-plating games, so the vast bulk of play is paper & pencilm albeit online chatroom gamnes are growing in popularity.

    All the so-called MMP online games are not role-playing at all. To whom do the participants play a role, and who respoinds to that? No one of course, so those are seek & destroy missions or the like.

    Cheerio,
    Gary
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  8. #168
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    Molonel,

    I find parsing words and picayune quibbling a worse waste of time than is outright disputation regarding which game or game edition is "superior."

    'Nuff said

    Gary
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  9. #169
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    I can't say if a MMO is a real RPG. Some people do role play in them, lightly. But they IME are the vast minority. I don't consider them a role playing games when I talk of RPG's though. Some do but I think the differences are pretty vast.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Col_Pladoh
    There are no electronic role-plating games, so the vast bulk of play is paper & pencilm albeit online chatroom gamnes are growing in popularity. All the so-called MMP online games are not role-playing at all. To whom do the participants play a role, and who respoinds to that? No one of course, so those are seek & destroy missions or the like.
    That is certainly your opinion, and you are entitled to it.

    But there most certainly ARE electronic roleplaying games.

    They are called MMORPGs for a reason.

    I have a friend who maintains a Neverwinter Nights server, and he puts just as much time into designing adventures and modules as I do. His group is more far-flung, and they come from all over the world. Throw in a Ventrilo server? The only thing you don't have is Mt. Dew and Cheetos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Col_Pladoh
    Molonel, I find parsing words and picayune quibbling a worse waste of time than is outright disputation regarding which game or game edition is "superior."
    Then you have every right to spend your time in a more productive manner.

    The points I raised, however, were not mere word-parsing nor picayune quibbling.

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