Counterspelling Outdated now?

DM_Jeff

Explorer
If there is another thread on this topic, I could not find it, so kindly direct me if there is!

Counterspelling in my 2002 Kalamar campaign was great. I even had a player, a gnome, who specialized in it, and he DID save the party a ton of heartache and doom by zapping away the bad guy's enchanted smackdown. It was fun and added to the game.

Now it's 2007, and there are about 30 bajillion spells. The stock answer "don't allow them in your game" is just that, stock, and not helpful. I only allow pre-approved WotC spells. So each of my arcane and divine players have dabbled in Spell Compendium, Complete Arcane, Complete Mage, Miniatures Handbook and many others to supplement their spellcasting cababilities. And we LIKE it.

As a diligent DM who likes keeping players on their toes, when I get an SRD spellcaster from a 3rd party module whose tactics just beg for a unique spell I recalled from Dragon Magic (for example), I swap out one of their SRD spells for the new one. Sometimes I do this a few times.

It's come down to there's so many good, useful and balanced spells my group likes using, that counterspelling just isn't possible anmore because the chances you'll have that spell is getting wider and wider with every book.

So, I'm not complaining about the diversity of spells, my group and I love that. I'm complaining that this text from the SRD: "To complete the action, you must then cast the correct spell. As a general rule, a spell can only counter itself. If you are able to cast the same spell and you have it prepared (if you prepare spells), you cast it, altering it slightly to create a counterspell effect. If the target is within range, both spells automatically negate each other with no other results."

Is this just a sign of the times? My group enjoys counterspelling and finds it useful on occassion, just neigh impossible to pull off these days. Has anyone experiemnted with a way to open up the possibilities a little? Like "any same-level spell with the same descriptor can be used to counter another"?

Thanks for any insight or ideas!

-DM Jeff
 
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DM_Jeff

Explorer
Goolpsy said:
Dispell Magic, should be able to "counter" spells too.. (i think)

Yes, it does. Having this ready or prepared enough however does take up slots they'd rather use for other things. Hey, maybe my players are just whiners! :)

-DM Jeff
 

wolff96

First Post
DM_Jeff said:
So, I'm not complaining about the diversity of spells, my group and I love that. I'm complaining that this text from the SRD: "To complete the action, you must then cast the correct spell. As a general rule, a spell can only counter itself. If you are able to cast the same spell and you have it prepared (if you prepare spells), you cast it, altering it slightly to create a counterspell effect. If the target is within range, both spells automatically negate each other with no other results."

Is this just a sign of the times? My group enjoys counterspelling and finds it useful on occassion, just neigh impossible to pull off these days. Has anyone experiemnted with a way to open up the possibilities a little? Like "any same-level spell with the same descriptor can be used to counter another"?

Despite the fact that I'm not generally a fan of the Realms, they have the best solution you're going to find... feats. There is a counter-spelling feat chain that is really good for a character that wants to counter-spell.

You'd have to look it up to see what all the pre-reqs are, IDHMBIFoM.

The general idea, though...
-------------------------------
Improved Counterspelling -- Counterspell any spell by using a spell from the same school of magic that is at least one level higher than the incoming spell. (Don't have the incoming 4th-level Spell Compendium Evocation memorized? Counter it with a 5th level or higher evocation.)

Reactive Counterspelling (Req. Imp Init and Imp. Counterspelling) -- Counter a spell when you don't have a readied action to counterspell, but lose part of your turn on your next initiative count.
 

DM_Jeff

Explorer
wolff96 said:
Despite the fact that I'm not generally a fan of the Realms, they have the best solution you're going to find... feats. There is a counter-spelling feat chain that is really good for a character that wants to counter-spell.

Hey, these are great, thanks. It gives me an idea to base mechanics off of. I will poke around and see if I can find them...maybe in Magic of Faerun? Thanks again!

-DM Jeff
 

Plane Sailing

Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Goolpsy said:
Dispell Magic, should be able to "counter" spells too.. (i think)

Dispel Magic isn't a sure-thing counterspell though... unlike standard counterspell which is.

Probably the best way of making counterspelling viable in DM_Jeff's campaign is just to make readied dispel magic an automatic success.
 

WhatGravitas

Explorer
DM_Jeff said:
Hey, these are great, thanks. It gives me an idea to base mechanics off of. I will poke around and see if I can find them...maybe in Magic of Faerun? Thanks again!

-DM Jeff
Tip: You may switch to counterspell with orbs of sound, i.e. you ready an action to lob an orb of sound at your enemy, if he begins to cast something. The resulting Concentration check is nasty enough to stop most spellcasting AND your damage your foe.
 

Pyrex

First Post
That's the solution we've come to in the game I'm playing in.

Magic Missile (to say nothing of Maximized Orb of Force) makes an excellent counterspell.
 

Mr. Patient

Adventurer
wolff96 said:
Despite the fact that I'm not generally a fan of the Realms, they have the best solution you're going to find... feats. There is a counter-spelling feat chain that is really good for a character that wants to counter-spell.

You don't need to go to the Realms. Improved Counterspell is in the PHB.

SRD said:
Improved Counterspell [General]

Benefit
When counterspelling, you may use a spell of the same school that is one or more spell levels higher than the target spell.

Normal
Without this feat, you may counter a spell only with the same spell or with a spell specifically designated as countering the target spell.

Plus there's the duelward spell in SC, which allows you to counterspell as an immediate action. It actually makes counterspelling a pretty useful tactic.
 

two

First Post
Silence

Easy solution. Just ready the "silence" spell; it will stop 99% of all spells cast your way.

The trick, of course, is to get the spell on your spell list.

"I cast silence when an enemy starts to cast a spell."

That does it. Center the silence spell "at a point in space" whose radius includes the enemy caster. Caster gets no save. Spell lost, unless it has no verbal. Very, very rare.

Or unless they are throwing silenced spells your way. In which case they have warning of your tactic. Still, even in this case, you get getting hit with spells 1 level lower, so that's almost ok.

You can also ready a silence for something like: "cast silence when the enemy starts to do something which creates a spell effect."

This will negate command word items (wands, etc.) as your silence stops the command word from being said. In addition to normal spells.
 
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