A new Middle Earth d20 thread

If you feel the Ainur are not above Demigod status (personally, I feel they are at least Lesser or Intermediate...

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By the way, could you put the Galadriel stuff into a doc and send it along to me for submission (see my profile for e-mail)? Also, let us know how you want to be credited.

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Sepulchrave II said:

On one hand, you have the Valar doing very god-like things (making continents, kindling stars etc.), yet on the other they travel through conventional means (Orome rides to speak with the Elves at Cuivienen, Tulkas pursues Melkor on foot etc.), and they lack omniscience - obviously, Divine Abilities would have to be modified somewhat from DDg. Also, no worshippers (except Melkor, maybe? Can Melkor grant divine spells?)

Aule creates the dwarves, Yavanna the Ents.

Melkor raises the Misty Mountains, but pours his power into the things that he has corrupted, diminishing himself. He is unable to assume another form.

After drinking from the wells of Varda and draining the sap from the two trees, Ungoliant threatens Melkor. He is rescued by Balrogs.

Sauron self-incarnates on several occasions: his form remains uncorrupted until the fall of Numenor, then he assumes an evil form to which he is confined. When he is slain by Gil-galad and Elendil, he loses even this form and becomes an abstract "Eye"- although it seems possible that he can resume a physical body when he regains the One Ring.

Fingolfin vs. Melkor in single combat.

The duel between Finrod and Sauron: close call.

Ecthelion of the fountain slays Gothmog.

In the 'Second Prophecy of Mandos' (Book of Lost Tales II, I think), a reference is made to the eschatology of Arda: a reincarnated Turin Turambar will finally slay Melkor in the Last Battle.

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Something to consider - you see the gods of the Greek and Norse pantheons engage in activities much like some of these from Tolkien. For example, Ares was driven from the battlefield a few times, as I recall, by mortals, in at least one case severely wounded. And, gods like Odin used steeds to move about.
Despite all this, these gods are usually considered to be rather powerful, as gods go.

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For my suggestions on how to handle magic, click on the link in my sig, then click on Magic; you'll see my stuff listed there.

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(sigh)

Yes, I'm quite aware that Gandalf/Olorin/Icanus/Mithrandir/Tharkun, and all the Istari, are Maiar. That isn't the point I'm trying to make.

(Aside -- this is a completely subjective discussion. What follows is my opinion. It won't change anyone else's. It doesn't reflect my exact feelings on the subject, but it's a devil's advocate argument. The whole discussion is akin to asking who would win a fight -- Elminster or Raistlin? There is only one answer -- who cares?)

My thesis is this: by the evidence of the writings on the 3rd Age of Middle Earth (specifically, the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings), there is nothing that requires the D&D equivalent of those characters to be high level. In fact, D&D at low levels can very accurately portray adventuring in Middle Earth.

Take Gandalf, for instance. I see no evidence in the books of him performing any feat of magic that cannot be explained by a D&D-equivalent spell of 3rd level or lower. So, conceivably, Gandalf could be a 5th level wizard! Just because he is Maiar does not imply high levels -- he was sent to Middle Earth in human form, so perhaps that form limits his powers. Or, perhaps an 8th level wizard IS the most powerful wizard in Middle Earth. Just because there are levels above that doesn't mean you have to use them -- I am trying to use the minimum possible level, to allow for the fewest deviations from core D&D rules.

Most would argue that converting Middle Earth to D&D requires a major overhaul of the magic system, since there are no "flashy" spell effects -- major damaging spells, teleportation, etc. -- in the books. I propose that you can simulate that not by overhauling the entire system, but by keeping the overall character levels low -- since the power of a 5th level wizard is consistent with what is found in the books.

Another example -- one that doesn't use magic. Aragorn may be the greatest ranger of the age, but he, Legolas, and Gimli lose the trail of the orcs they are tracking in the Two Towers when the orcs pass over some hard ground (they reacquire the trail later by a guess as to the orc's direction of travel). Now, the DMG sets the DC for tracking "a goblin that passed over hard rocks, a week ago, and it snowed yesterday" -- a MUCH more difficult feat than the tracking in Two Towers -- at 43. So Aragorn clearly is not capable of a +23 wilderness lore check, which means he must be well below 20th level as a ranger. My version of him above gives him the ability to make a DC 31 wilderness lore check -- probably just short of what would be required for that situation, which I feel accurately reflects the situation in the book.

Now the best argument in my mind for higher levels is the fight with the Balrog. That's an excellent argument if you equate Balrog = Balor; I've postulated above that a fiendish fire elemental provides an equivalent analog to the Balrog that is consistent with the "lower-level" approach to the situation. But the Balrog is a Maiar too! you exclaim. *Show me* a reference to a deed that can only be exclaimed by extremely high/epic levels, and I'll agree with you.

That's just one man's opinion.

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Cheiromancer said:

ColonelHardisson,



Do you know where the Magic Trace feat can be found? It is mentioned as being by someone named Turin, but a casual look around the site failed to turn it up.

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originally posted by Turin:

Arcane Awareness
Description: When using magic within Middle Earth a Spell caster risks discovery of both his location and the powers he employs. Certain races, such as the Valar, Maiar, Elves and the Dunedain are sensitive to the use and presence of magic. With this feat a subject may become aware of any arcane or divine spell casting within his Arcane Awareness range. In addition, familiars other enchanted or transmuted creatures employed by spell casters also have a chance of being detected by those with Arcane Awareness. The maximum range in which another spell caster or enchanted creature may be detected is determined by the subjects Caster level + the applicable modifier for spell use (Cha/Int/Wis) x the racial modifier. By making a successful Scry check at a base DC of 30 and incurring the modifiers noted below a subject may become aware of magic use, the presence of enchanted/transmuted creatures or the employment of a magic users familiar.

Arcane Awareness range multipliers
Elves x 2
Numenoreans x 1.5
Maiar x 10
Valar Special*

* DM’s adjudication.


DC Modifiers for Arcane Awareness
Per Spell level -1 DC
Per level of Caster -1 DC
Per Metamagic spell level (i.e. Empowered spells suffer a -4 DC) -2 DC
If Spell is cast from a school other than Divination or Illusion -5 DC
Arcane Aware subject is actively Scrying -3 DC
Per HD of Familiar -1 DC
Per HD of Enchanted or Transmuted creature -1 DC

Prerequisite: This feat is awarded free to members of the following races: Valar, Maiar, Elves or those with the blood of these races in their heritage. This also includes Half-Elves and the Dunedain and other races of Numenor. None of the above mentioned races are required to meet the ability score requirement. Wisdom 13+.

Arcane Trace
Description: A character with Arcane Trace having performed a successful Arcane Awareness check may attempt to 'trace' magic use or any individual employing magical craft. Should a 'trace' be successful the subject may follow a magical 'ping' that will lead her to the last 'traced' position of the targeted magic use. Should the target move from the originating locale of the spell effect or otherwise, a second Arcane Trace check may be performed to re-orient the 'tracer'. Spellcraft check: Use a base DC of 30 then apply the modifiers noted below:

DC chart for Arcane Trace

Target is Elven or Half-Elven -2 DC
Target is Numenorean -1 DC
Target is of Evil or Good Alignment -1 DC
Target is within 1/2 of the Arcane Awareness range of the user -2 DC
Target is affected by a spell with a -2 DC
duration greater than Instantaneous
Target has left originating +2 DC (per/Hr.)
locale of magic use
Target is a Hobbit +3 DC

Prerequisite: Arcane Awareness, Wisdom 15+. Blooded races are not required to meet the ability score requirement.
Special: If a target is successfully detected via the Arcane Awareness feat and then consecutively Traced via the feat of the same name Scrying becomes a much easier task. Should an Arcane Aware Spellcaster have the means, a +5 Connection bonus to Scry checks is awarded. For the purposes of the spell Scry a successful Arcane Trace provides sufficient connection for use of the spell.

Example: Taelos, a 2nd/1st level Numenorean Sorceror/Fighter casts a 1st level evocation spell, Magic Missile in combat against an Orc. Vilyach a 2nd level Elf Bard has Arcane Awareness and Trace: She has an Arcane Awareness range of 12 miles (2nd level + 4 Charisma modifier x 2 Racial modifier = 12 miles.) The DM determines she is less than 5 miles away, which is less than 1/2 of her Awareness range. She has 5 ranks in Scry, and to become Aware of Taelos she needs to match a DC of 23. (Base DC 30, -1 Caster level, -1 Spell level, -5 evocation spell = DC 23) Performing her Scry check she succeeds and detects Taelos.

She now attempts to use Arcane Trace to locate Taelos, having successfully identified his magical 'signature'. Vilyach performs a Spellcraft check to do so. Her Spellcraft check is at DC 26 (Target is of Numenor -1, -1 Good alignment, -2 for Awareness range = DC 26) rolling the dice and adding her +7 skill ranks in Spellcraft the Silvan Elf succeeds in triangulating Taelos' position and takes off at a brisk pace to investigate.

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