A new Middle Earth d20 thread

Here is a quote from Unfinished Tales about the Wizards (emphasis mine):

From Unfinished Tales, Part Four, section II: The Istari:"Emissaries they were from the Lords of the West, the Valar, who still took counsel for the governance of Middle-earth, and when the shadow of Sauron began first to stir again took this means of resisting him. For with the consent of Eru they sent members of their own high order, but clad in bodies as of Men, real and not feigned, but subject to the fears and pains and weariness of earth, able to hunger and thirst and be slain; though because of their noble spirits they did not die, and aged only by the cares and labours of many long years. And this the Valar did, desiring to amend the errors of old, especially that they attempted to guard and seclude the Eldar by their own might and glory fully revealed; whereas now their emissaries were forbidden to reveal themselves in forms of majesty, or to seek to rule the wills of Men or Elves by open display of power, but coming in shapes weak and humble were bidden to advise and persuade Men and Elves to good, and to seek to unite in love and understanding all those whom sauron, should he come again, would endeavour to dominate and corrupt."

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Hmm, nice of you for providing those quotes Colonel Hardisson, for I have Tolkien`s work in Polish, and I wouldn`t dare translate it. So we agree that Istari would be non-divine beings, good. But I am still pretty sure that Sauron gained some levels from first to 3rd age. Not to mention that he killed both Elendil and Gil-Galad in single combat while wearing Ring Of Power, and I am sure that these two weren`t much weaker than their ancestors from previous age.

Actually, it seems that Sauron weakened in power somewhat until he made the One Ring. It was the Ring itself that increased his power. He may have been higher in level with the Ring, but it wasn't because he, himself, rose in level.

Hi Sepulchrave! I am trully impressed by your work, keep it going!

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Thank-you. It's a long, slow process, and I'll update when I can.

How do you envision stats of other great Noldor? I personally see Fingolfin as Fighter 20/Paladin20/Ari 5 ( as greatest warrior among Noldor), Feanor as Fighter 20/Ari 5/Expert30( highest level of all sons of Finwe and their descendants), Finrod Felagund Sor 30/Ari 5( might have become more powerful than his sister Galadriel if he had survived as long). Fingon seemed to be almost as mighty in battle as his father, maybe Fighter 20/Paladin15/Ari 5, his brother Turgon seemed to be of great Wisdom, as Ulmo chose him, Fighter 10/Paladin/Cleric 10/Ari 5. Other notable non-Ainur beings of 3rd age would be between 25th-40th level.

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I've thought a lot about the house of Finwe, and initially I'd planned to detail them all together. I'm toying with the idea of approaching it thematically, though. All of the characters in the lay of Beren and Luthien, all of the characters in Narn i Hin Hurin etc. I think that it might be less of a repetitive number-crunch for me if I go about it that way.

I'm pretty close to the Colonel on his view of Fingolfin - he was one of the first that I attempted too. I pegged him at aristo 5 / fighter 35. I have trouble assigning Paladin levels to the rebel Noldor, somehow...

Feanor is a trick - your suggestion is pretty close to what I had in mind. Finrod I had down as Aristo 5 / Bard 30 or 35 ("He sang a song of Wizardry..." etc.)

Sauron is an ongoing project - I'm trying to detail him in his three "incarnations" - first as deceitful, cruel shapeshifter / Annatar, Lord of Gifts; second (after he leaves his body when Numenor falls) as the slayer of Elendil etc; third as the familiar "Eye" from the Rings trilogy. I feel that different domain emphases are probably called for in these three guises.


Meanwhile...

From Beren and Luthien

Huan, Paragon Valinorean Legendary Hound: CR24; Medium-size Magical Beast; HD 14d8+168 plus 168 (448hp); Init +20; Spd 180ft.; AC 55 (touch 55, flat-footed 39); Atk +51 melee (2d6+34, bite); SA Trip +13 insight bonus to opposed checks, Smite Evil 1/day +13 insight bonus to damage; SQ Acid/Cold/Electricity Resistance 20, Fire Resistance 10, Fast Healing 20, Darkvision 60ft., DR 20/+6, Scent, SR36, Spell-like abilities of Greater Dispelling, See Invisibility, Haste each 3/day at 15th level; AL LG; SV Fort +31, Ref +35, Will +23; Str 38, Dex 43, Con 35, Int 18, Wis 29, Cha 25.
Skills and Feats: Hide +29, Listen +27, Move Silently +29, Spot +27, Wilderness Lore +21; Weapon Finesse (Bite), Improved Initiative, Improved Grapple. +8 bonus on Wilderness Lore if tracking by scent.


Carcharoth, Paragon Advanced Fiendish Dire Wolf: CR17; Large Magical Beast; HD 18d8+198 plus 216 (558hp); Init +10; Spd 150ft.; AC 48 (touch 48, flat-footed 38); Atk +53 melee (1d8+35, bite); SA Trip +13 insight bonus to opposed checks, Smite Good 1/day +13 insight bonus to damage; SQ Acid/Cold/Electricity Resistance 20, Fire Resistance 10, Fast Healing 20, Darkvision 60ft., DR 20/+6, Scent, SR27, Spell-like abilities of Greater Dispelling, See Invisibility, Haste each 3/day at 15th level; AL CE; SV Fort +32, Ref +31, Will +23; Str 40, Dex 30, Con 32, Int 17, Wis 27, Cha 25.
Skills and Feats: Hide +22, Listen +23, Move Silently +23, Spot +23, Wilderness Lore +18; Alertness, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush. +4 bonus on Wilderness Lore if tracking by scent.

Speaking of Feanor, here is an interesting couple of quotes about Galadriel that relate to him, from - Unfinished Tales, Part Two, chapter IV: The History of Galadriel and Celeborn:

"Galadriel was the greatest of the Noldor, except Feanor maybe, though she was wiser than he, and her wisdom increased with the long years."

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"Even among the Eldar she was accounted beautiful, and her hair was held a marvel unmatched.[...]For Feanor beheld the hair of Galadriel with wonder and delight. He begged three times for a tress, but Galadriel would not give him even one hair."

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May I post some of this stuff for you, Sepulchrave?

Sepulchrave,

May I convert a portion of the materials you've posted to html and add them to the website? Mention which ones are ready and I'll copy them from the thread.

Derek

I do so enjoy seeing the ME materials scooped (or pimped, depending on your perspective) on EN World.

P.S. Thanks all for the ideas on the feats. Still contemplating them. On a related note, how about a feat entitled Hands of the Healer (or Hands of the King)? True, it could be covered by cleric or paladin levels, but I think there's something there. Perhaps Aragorn (and ancestors and descendants) can heal diseases which could not be healed by cured by cure disease. It seems like it would need to be an epic feat, but I don't have the ELH, so I'm not the most qualified to judge.

Sepulchrave, by your logic Sauron is also a Bard, because he exchanged in a duel of Songs Of Power with Finrod:

"He chanted a song of wizardry,
Of piercing, opening, of treachery,
Revealing, uncovering, betraying.
Then sudden Felagund there swaying,
Sang in a song of staying,
Resisting, battling against power,
Of secrets kept, strength like a tower,
And trust unbroken, freedom, escape;
Of changing and shifting shape,
Of snares eluded, broken traps,
The prison opening, the chain that snaps.
Backwards and forwards swayed their song.
Reeling foundering, as ever more strong
The chanting swelled, Felagund fought,
And all the magic and might he brought
Of Elvenesse into his words.
Softly in the gloom they heard the birds
Singing afar in Nargothrond,
The sighting of the Sea beyond,
Beyond the western world, on sand,
On sand of pearls on Elvenland.
Then in the doom gathered; darkness growing
In Valinor, the red blood flowing
Beside the Sea, where the Noldor slew
The Foamriders, and stealing drew
Their white ships with their white sails
From lamplit havens. The wind wails,
The wolf howls. The ravens flee.
The ice mutters in the mouths of the Sea.
The captives sad in Angband mourn.
Thunder rumbles, the fires burn-
And Finrod fell before the throne."

Here magic is called as "Song of Wizardy". I also remember that Gandalf used a Word of Command to lock the door before Balrog. Also note that Ainuri and Iluvatar sang to create Arda. There are other examples indicating that magic in Middle Earth is based upon words, or even some words have magic of their own( like name of Elbereth).

Sepulchrave,

May I convert a portion of the materials you've posted to html and add them to the website? Mention which ones are ready and I'll copy them from the thread.

Derek

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Certainly - I'd be more than happy. I'd ask that you wait on Galadriel (well. Nenya), and the One Ring, though, because I'm still fiddling with them. If you want to add some backstory from Tolkien, that would be even better...

Sepulchrave, by your logic Sauron is also a Bard, because he exchanged in a duel of Songs Of Power with Finrod

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I had considered the possibility, but I have two words: EPIC SPELLS. There is no reason why many Epic Spells shouldn't have a sung component in Middle Earth. I really think that Epic Spells are where it's at in ME: I can't emphasize that enough. Class becomes almost irrelevant, although I'd still peg Sauron as a sorcerer.

Using the "song-duel" to illustrate Finrod's bardishness was probably a bad example, if Epic Spells can account for the sung stuff - his initial encounter with Men in the Silmarillion is a better one.

Why Epic Bards rock...

Finrod Felagund

Male Noldor Ari 4 / Ftr 6 / Brd 30: CR 42; Medium-size humanoid (elf); HD 4d8+8 plus 6d10+12 plus 30d6+60; hp 240; Init +8; Spd 30 ft.; AC 23 (touch 14, flat-footed 19); Attack +25/+20/+15/+10 (+5 Keen Orc-Bane Longsword); Dmg 1d8 +9 (19-20/x2); SA Bardic Music, Spells; SQ Noldor Traits, Bardic Lore; AL NG; SV Fort +21 Ref +24 Will +28; Str 15 Dex 18 Con 15 Int 20 Wis 20 Cha 24.

Skills: Appraise +15, Balance +14, Bluff +29, Climb +12, Concentration +32, Diplomacy +31, Disguise +27, Escape Artist +24, Gather Information +21, Hide +14, Knowledge (History) +15, Knowledge (The Blessed Realm) +25, Knowledge (Arcana) +35, Knowledge (Geography) +22, Knowledge (Nature) +15, Listen +15, Move Silently +15, Perform +56 (Sing +58), Ride +14, Sense Motive +32, Spellcraft +58, Spot +15.

Feats: Leadership, Skill Focus (Perform), Still Spell, Craft Wondrous Item, Weapon Focus (Longsword), Weapon Specialization (Longsword), Empower Spell, Extend Spell, Improved Initiative.

Epic Feats: Epic Leadership, Music of the Gods, Reactive Countersong, Deafening Song, Hindering Song, Epic Reputation, Epic Inspiration, Improved Spellcasting (7th, 8th and 9th), Epic Spellcasting, Epic Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Legendary Commander.

Bard Spells/Day: 4/6/6/6/5/5/5/2/2/1 +4 Epic. Save DCs are 17+ Spell Level

Bard Spells Known:

0th: Dancing Lights, Daze, Detect Magic, Flare, Ghost Sound, Prestidigitation
1st: Cause Fear, Charm Person, Hypnotism, Protection from Evil, Sleep
2nd: Animal Trance, Bull’s Strength, Cat’s Grace, Enthrall, Suggestion
3rd: Charm Monster, Dispel Magic, Emotion, Remove Curse, Sculpt Sound
4th: Break Enchantment, Dominate Person, Hold Monster, Legend Lore, Modify Memory
5th: Dream, Greater Dispelling, Mind Fog, Mislead, Nightmare
6th: Eyebite, Mass Suggestion, Repulsion, Veil


Possessions: +5 Mithril Shirt of Silent Moves, +5 Keen Orc-Bane Longsword




Relevant Passages

On his predilections for a Bardish wandering:

[Finrod]…had great love of wandering, and he came even into Ossiriand, and won the friendship of the Green-Elves.

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Silmarillion, p.124


On his remorse regarding the actions of Fëanor, but his unwillingness to betray his sons:

“I marvel at you, son of Eärwen,” said Thingol, “that you would come to the board of your kinsmen thus red-handed from the slaying of your mother’s kin., and yet say naught in defence, nor yet seek any pardon.”
Then Finrod was greatly troubled, but he was silent, for he could not defend himself, save by bringing charges against the other princes of the Noldor; and that he was loath to do before Thingol.

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Silmarillion, pp.128-9


More Bardishness:

Long Felagund watched them, and a love for them stirred in his heart; but he remained hidden in the trees until they had all fallen asleep. Then he wernt among the sleeping people, and sat beside their dying fire where none kept watch; and he took up a rude harp which Bëor had laid aside, and he played music upon it such as the ears of men had not heard; for they had as yet no teachers in the art, save only the Dark Elves of the wild lands.
Now men awoke and listened to Felagund as he harped and sang, and each thought that he was in some fair dream, until he saw that his fellows were awake also beside him; but they did not speak or stir while Felagund still played, because of the beauty of the music and the wonder of the song.

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Silmarillion, p.140


The use of the spell Veil?

On an evening of autumn, Felagund and Beren set out from Nargothrond with their ten companions; and they journeyed beside Narog to his source in the Falls of Ivrin. Beneath the Shadowy Mountains they came upon a company of Orcs, and slew them all in their camp by night; and they took their gear and their weapons, By the arts of Felagund their own forms and faces were changed into the likeness of Orcs

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Silmarillion, p.170


And – at a push – a Stilled, triply Empowered Bull’s Strength

But when the wolf came for Beren, Felagund put forth all his power, and burst his bonds; and he wrestled with the werewolf and slew it with his hands and teeth; yet he himself was wounded to the death.

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Silmarillion, p.170

Melkor said:

I am curious why do you think Sauron dimished in stature with the passing of time? In Valinor he was just of one of the many Maiar there, servant of Aule, propably Divine Rank 3 or 4. Under service of Melkor he grew mighty in the Dark Art of Sorcery, and eventually he became Morgoth`s heir, the second Dark Lord, close to becoming The Supreme Ruler of All Middle Earth, one to whom so many others were due! At a height of his power, with The One Ring on his hand, he could even posess Divine Rank of 6.

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My personal impression and i believe it was somwhere mentioned in the silmarillion ist the following.

Morgoth and Sauron lost "power" because all their craftings and corruptings they bound these things to their will.
They hold it in their greedy and powerhungry claws.
The valar didn`t do that, remember Aule after creating the dwarfes, who didn`t live really, and Aule was ready to destroy without hesitation, as Illvatar/Eru asked him about it, and make complaints.
Eru seen that Aule had no mockery in sense stopped him, and give the Naugrim live.

Morgoth and Sauron didn`t create only copying and corrupt, and so they must maybe overcome the spirit, will, or such from Eru, perhaps this had also a role to play.