Heroics and stunning surge...any errata

C

Cephid

First Post

• Aug 11, 2007

• #1

2 quick questions:

Heroics (spell compendium 2nd wis/sor)
gives any one a fighter feat for 10min/level.
They have to meet the prerequisites.

This spell seems WAY too powerful to me.
It would mean that at higher levels, everyone in the party can have whatever combat feats they like. Could greatly change feat choices characters make when leveling up.
Combined with a ring of wizardry (doubles 2nd level spells) and a rod of lesser maximise (both paid for by the party), the arcane caster doesn't even have to use any spells to pump up the whole party for half the day.

Is there any errata on this, or should there be?

2) stunning surge weapon ability:
this seems overpowered too (for a melee sorcerer)
DC 23, 9 times per day.
It is much more powerful than similar abilities.


What I'm really asking is:
Are these two fare?
Should they be allowed by DM's?
Any errata?

 

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C

Cephid

First Post

• Aug 11, 2007

• #2

Just adding to that, what about spellstrike weapon ability.
(adds weapons enhancement bonus to users saves vs. spells)

give it to a primary spell caster (non melee fighter) and cast greater magic weapon on it for big bonuses that last for all day and stack with everything!

Sound fair?

 

Mouseferatu

Hero

• Aug 11, 2007

• #3

It would mean that at higher levels, everyone in the party can have whatever combat feats they like.

Click to expand...

No, not really. Most of the really cool fighter bonus feats have prerequisites that even most high-level characters won't meet (such as other feats).

 

RangerWickett

Legend

• Aug 11, 2007

• #4

I dunno. A high-level sorcerer could cast it a dozen times to give the party fighter pretty much anything that doesn't require fighter levels or a ridiculously high ability score.

Note, I don't have the text of the spell handy. I might be wrong. But I actually am sort of amused by the idea of a 20th level sorcerer casting this spell on his 20th level fighter buddy, giving him a different set of special abilities for each day. No more reason to pick up weapon spec feats -- you just have your sorcerer buddy slap Greater Magic Weapon on that chair leg you picked up, and cast heroics six times to get weapon focus, spec, greater focus, greater spec, melee weapon mastery, and weapon supremacy (chair leg). 42 seconds of preparation, and you're set for 3 hours.

 

Mouseferatu

Hero

• Aug 11, 2007

• #5

RangerWickett said:

I dunno. A high-level sorcerer could cast it a dozen times to give the party fighter pretty much anything that doesn't require fighter levels or a ridiculously high ability score.

Click to expand...

Hardly the best use of spell slots, though, especially since it only lasts 10 minutes/level.

More to the point, the spell could be read to suggest that a feat granted by the spell does not, itself, count as a prereq for other feats.

"For the duration of the heroics spell, the subject can use the feat as if it were one of those the creature had selected. All prerequisites for the feat must be met by the target of this spell."

If I may put on my Hypersmurf disguise for a moment...

It says the subject can use the feat as if he selected it, not that he is treated as having selected it. And since the target must meet the prereqs, a feat granted by the spell does not qualify.

 

Hypersmurf

Moderatarrrrh...

• Aug 11, 2007

• #6

Mouseferatu said:

If I may put on my Hypersmurf disguise for a moment...

Click to expand...

You'll have to show me that one at GenCon...

-Hyp.

 

Mouseferatu

Hero

• Aug 11, 2007

• #7

Hypersmurf said:

You'll have to show me that one at GenCon...

Click to expand...

Ooh, sorry. Don't think I have room to pack it.

 

iceifur

Explorer

• Aug 11, 2007

• #8

Cephid said:

It would mean that at higher levels, everyone in the party can have whatever combat feats they like ...

Click to expand...

... Except for that pesky "Same Effect With Differing Results" clause on page 172 of the Player's Handbook. As I understand it, each casting of heroics overwrites the effects of the previous casting for that target. I could be wrong, though. *shrugs*

 

Mouseferatu

Hero

• Aug 11, 2007

• #9

iceifur said:

... Except for that pesky "Same Effect With Differing Results" clause on page 172 of the Player's Handbook. As I understand it, each casting of heroics overwrites the effects of the previous casting for that target. I could be wrong, though. *shrugs*

Click to expand...

Although it could be better worded, I believe that clause doesn't apply here. The example given is polymorph, and the intent seems to be "same effect with differing results that cannot all exist at once.

After all, if your interpretation is correct, it means that nobody can ever benefit from, say, resist energy (cold) and resist energy (acid) at the same time. And while that's certainly a viable reading of the letter of the rules, it's not the only one--and I don't believe it was the intention.

 

Mouseferatu

Hero

• Aug 11, 2007

• #10

OTOH, given that I've long had a problem with just how many things stack, and how long it can take a high-level party to prep for a single combat, maybe I should give the more restrictive interpretation a shot...