Fantasy craft??? will you bother?

Gundark · Sep 1, 2007

I saw that Crafty-games announced their fantasy craft book. With the announcement of 4e, as well as the Saga fantasy rules floating around out there will you bother? Really I think that they should be focusing on modern/future content. Fantasy craft sounds like a dead duck to me.

jdrakeh · Sep 1, 2007

I don't know. Spycraft was popular because it shelved a lot of things that regular d20 didn't (Attacks of Opportunity, for example) while introducing rules for new things not covered by regular d20 (quick NPCs, for example). Now, granted, Saga brings some of these same things to the table, as will 4e undoubtedly, though I think that there is still enough different in Spycraft to make Fantasycraft a viable option.

Turanil · Sep 1, 2007

I think it has some chances of success. I guess it will be "backward compatible" with many 3.5 stuff, and that may appeal to a lot of GMs who spent hundreds of dollars on 3.5 material, yet would be interested in "improved 3.5 rules". But their rules need to be **really** good and compatible with 3.5 stuff...

That said, I don't like the cover's preview. :\

Gundark · Sep 1, 2007

Before the annoucement of 4e, and before the saga rules where released I would have been really excited by this. I think this is a bad move for crafty. Can they suffer a product to fail? I can see the Spycraft die hards going for this. I love Spycraft for what it does, and I think that they should be trying to fill the void left by the "death" of d20 modern with modern /futrue suplements. Now I know they are doing these things, it just seems like Fantasy craft is a waste of effort.

jdrakeh · Sep 1, 2007

Gundark said:
Now I know they are doing these things, it just seems like Fantasy craft is a waste of effort.

Why? If it's based on Spycraft, it should still offer rule innovations that neither Saga or 4e do (again, I point to combat without Attacks of Opportunity as an example). Saga does have AoOs, doesn't it? And it has already been confirmed that 4e will have them too. They're one of those things that enough people regularly complain about that this alone means Fantasy Craft will have a fanclub, I think

Ahzad · Sep 1, 2007

I'm all for FantasyCraft. I love what the crafty guys did with the d20 engine for modern action games and look forward to see them apply that towards the fantasy genre.

After 30 years of D&D, D&D 4e is where I depart. I don't enjoy the skill system changes I see coming, I appreciate them and see why they are doing them, but it's not for me. I didn't like the system (skill) in the previous editions. The Crafty guys on the other hand took the skill system and made it just as robust and interesting as the combat system. So my skill guy can really shine next to the combat monsters. It's the interesting changes like that that have made me a Crafty Games fanboy.

Maybe I'm wrong, and it's just my opinion, but the direction of the D&D game seems to be more geared (not exclusively) to attracting the WoW crowd, and other Computer/Console gamers, which I'm not much of anymore, and there's nothing wrong with that, or even doing another edition of a game. It's a business and you have to evolve and keep putting out new product to survive I can understand that and get behind it.

I'll take a look at 4e when it hits my shelves, I have to be knowledgeable about the product I'm selling

, but I'm not jazzed about it the way I am FantasyCraft. The only thing that I got jazzed about in 4e was seeing the virtual game table thing that was in the presentation, and I hope that it's a success, but I don't have my hopes up b/c of their track record w/ electronic products.

So back to the original thought. Yea I think FantasyCraft is a good thing. It's what? A 200 page toolkit, to add on to the existing Spycraft rules, not all that different then the toolkits that are coming out for the other genres they are dabbling in, cyberpunk, horror, sci-fi, etc..
It gives those of us that think Spycraft is the "one" rpg system

other tools to play with, and maybe it brings in others who don't like the current genre supported by Spycraft, over to try it out, and maybe they'll like it and stick around.

GlassJaw · Sep 1, 2007

I'll probably check it out from a curiosity standpoint only. I'm psyched for 4ed so I doubt I will be playing FantasyCraft unless it blows me away.

I'm just about to start a Spycraft campaign and my gut feeling is that it's a bit too simulationist even for me. We'll see. For fantasy though, I don't think it's necessarily a good thing. Plain and simple, Spycraft just isn't easy to introduce to people unfamiliar with the system. I predict FantasyCraft will fall in the same boat.

I love the amount of detail in Spycraft but I also think that's its major flaw. There's no doubt the Crafty guys are amazing designers. But the complexity of their system makes it inaccessible for a lot of groups.

Cergorach · Sep 1, 2007

Let's remember it's Crafty game => Flaming Cobra => Mongoose publishing that's releasing "Fantasy Craft" in december 2007. That's a good sharp edge, it's out way before 4E, it's out before christmas, it builds on a non-obsolete game system, and that game ystem is SpyCraft 2.0.

1.) Out before 4E: A lot of folk are waiting for 4E to hit the stands, means that they aren't buying 3.5E books, meas they have 'spare' cash for other games (like Fantasy Craft).
2.) Out before christmas: People need gifts, want new things, get new things. A lot of cash flying around that month, if promtly an amply available i suspect it's going to sell well.
3.) Builds on a non-obsolete game system: 3.5E is going the way of the dodo, SpyCraft 2 on the other hand isn't going anywhere (i don't think we'll see a SC3 anytime soon). SpyCraft is it's own System and isn't really linked to 3.5E, a lot of the changes in 4E are already in SC2, i don't expect 4E to have many improvements over SC2 (and FC when it's released).
4.) It's SpyCraft 2.0: SpyCraft has a solid system, people have been calling for a fantasy version of it since it's first release, it took a couple of years but it's finally here.

I remember telling some of my gaming buddies of SC (1 at the time), all the kewl mechanical stuff, the potential. They were interested, but were put off by the fact that it wasn't fantasy, "Get a fantasy version and we'll give it a try." was what i was told. I wanted to do a good job of converting the game and make a complete FC rulebook, that was a bit harder then it seemed ;-)

Can you tell i'm looking forward to this release?

Gundark · Sep 2, 2007

GlassJaw said:
I love the amount of detail in Spycraft but I also think that's its major flaw. There's no doubt the Craft are amazing designers. But the complexity of their system makes is inaccessible for a lot of groups.

Don't get me wrong, I love Spycraft. It's my first choice for any modern/future game. That said unfortunetly there were a few items which made the game bog down. The Gear section and the skill section. Both these sections ended up with alot of look up time for us (What happens with a critical success on a stealth? Hold on, what security gear picks do I get with at calibre 3 again?)

Part of the reason I'm looking forward to 4e is the trimming of the bloat of 3.5. IMHO Spycraft has some bloat that needs trimming.

I guess I'm concerned about fantasy-craft doing poorly for them. I recall them stating that one bad product can create a down-ward spiral for a small company. I guess the story is different if the product is a PDF rather than a printed book. Maybe I'm concerned needlessly. I just see this as a loss for them. People like me, who normally pick up crafty stuff probably won't touch FC due to 4e. The real question I guess is how many people are like me? Hopefully for crafty not too many.

Dragonblade · Sep 2, 2007

I don't like PDF products, but I love Crafty Games stuff. I will likely buy Fantasy Craft if there is a print version of it.

I will also buy 4e. I anticipate that 4e will be my main game and Fantasy Craft will be a toolkit that I borrow cool ideas from. But if WotC drops the ball, then I may reverse that.

I like a lot of stuff I'm hearing about 4e so far. I think Saga and Tome of Battle were brilliant works so as long as 4e follows in those footsteps then I think I will not be disappointed.