Discussion - LEW 4th Edition

Someone · Aug 17, 2007

Well, looks like 4e is coming in a relatively (pbp speaking) short time, and seems that it'll be different enough that character conversion will be very difficult or impossible, and will have it's own SRD. Maybe it's still a bit early to talk about the changes in EnWorld (if there's going to be one) but, as I said, 9 months is a short time in pbp - many adventures last that or longer.

Boddynock · Aug 17, 2007

Speaking as one who eagerly awaited 3E, and couldn't understand the position of the grognards who said, "I'll never give up my beloved 2nd Edition," I find myself now in the situation where, without a regular face to face gaming group, and no chance to play except on ENWorld, I'm not in the least excited or inspired by the announcement of 4th Edition.

No doubt I'll be drawn into the new marketing ploy to a greater or lesser extent but my overall response is ... meh!

But to actually respond to Someone's raising of the question, I would hope that 3.5 will continue to be played at least in parallel with 4E when it comes - and that players can be given the option to continue with their PCs until they choose to retire them. And if they're forced to retire characters because of a lack of 3.5 games, then I hope they'll be able to pick up new characters of a similar sort of level in a 4E game.

Knight Otu · Aug 17, 2007

I was wondering when that question would crop up. As far as I am concerned, the question whether Living Enworld updates to 4E or remains 3.5 should, and probably will be, a community decision, when the time comes for that.

My own personal opinion? LEW should stay at 3.5. Conversions between editions is always messy. Time-consuming. Tough, when you don't have quite a handle of the new rules yet. I mean, 3.0 to 3.5 was messy as well! WotC themselves suggest that campaigns should not attempt to convert to the new edition (and of course they'd want you to start new campaigns with the new rules). There are indications that gnomes and/or half-orcs will be dropped from the core books (to be reintroduced later in the year), and a few classes will get the axe as well. Add to that that LEW has quite some custom rules, and we would have a ton of conversion work (and we'd need to hope we can get a grasp of any possible balance problems!).
Under no circumstances should Living Enworld mix 3.5 and 4E characters. It's one, or the other. If the community decides to move forward, I'd propose a lull of adventures and temporarily locking the (old) character thread, so that no one is on adventure for a time, allowing for a period in which everyone can help with the update process, so it can go smoothly and without distractions from eevnts in adventures, characters levelling, and so on.

Xael · Aug 17, 2007

If levels 1-20 in 4th edition are going to be basically the same thing as in 3.5, and levels 21-30 still epic in some way, then at least the level/xp of the characters wouldn't be that much of a problem.

But since they're scrapping some classes and changing others, levels might be the only thing that can be salvaged, and possibly ability scores. Every character needs to be rebuilt and reapproved in any case.

It's going to be one hell of a hassle though. Every character, item, spell and prestige class needs to be updated.

I'd prefer the trouble instead of either starting from zero again, or keeping the 3.5 ruleset, if the 4th edition turns out to be even marginally better than 3.5 (and I like what I've read thus far).

Patlin · Aug 17, 2007

From the reports, it sounded more like levels 1-30 would correspond fairly well to current levels 1-20. At least, that's what I take from the 'expanded sweet spot' thing.

Xael · Aug 17, 2007

Patlin said:
From the reports, it sounded more like levels 1-30 would correspond fairly well to current levels 1-20. At least, that's what I take from the 'expanded sweet spot' thing.

That might be the case, though I remember reading something about epic levels being in the core books. That might just have been speculation though.

Knight Otu · Aug 17, 2007

Patlin said:
From the reports, it sounded more like levels 1-30 would correspond fairly well to current levels 1-20. At least, that's what I take from the 'expanded sweet spot' thing.

Since the reports also mention things like Epic being built into the Core, I don't think it's quite that simple, but I suspect that is a part.

stonegod · Aug 17, 2007

Yeah, and things are going to be a bit more complicated over at LEB w/ the switch-over, adding to the mix that Eberron does not appear to be supported in 4E until '09 at the earliest. That may or may not be a good thing for transition purposes (LEB being smaller and newer than LEW).

Patlin · Aug 17, 2007

Well, let's keep in mind that we don't have to switch. If WotC completely wows us with 4e, we may, but it's way too early to tell.

BigB · Aug 17, 2007

Knight Otu said:
I was wondering when that question would crop up. As far as I am concerned, the question whether Living Enworld updates to 4E or remains 3.5 should, and probably will be, a community decision, when the time comes for that.

My own personal opinion? LEW should stay at 3.5. Conversions between editions is always messy. Time-consuming. Tough, when you don't have quite a handle of the new rules yet. I mean, 3.0 to 3.5 was messy as well! WotC themselves suggest that campaigns should not attempt to convert to the new edition (and of course they'd want you to start new campaigns with the new rules). There are indications that gnomes and/or half-orcs will be dropped from the core books (to be reintroduced later in the year), and a few classes will get the axe as well. Add to that that LEW has quite some custom rules, and we would have a ton of conversion work (and we'd need to hope we can get a grasp of any possible balance problems!).
Under no circumstances should Living Enworld mix 3.5 and 4E characters. It's one, or the other. If the community decides to move forward, I'd propose a lull of adventures and temporarily locking the (old) character thread, so that no one is on adventure for a time, allowing for a period in which everyone can help with the update process, so it can go smoothly and without distractions from eevnts in adventures, characters levelling, and so on.

It does seem this would be very cumbersome in the least and given all the ENWORLD unique feats classes spells etc... I would not enjoy the change over. Adventures could be on hold for a year

to review and go through an entire new approval process. Would the judges take a leave of absence from their regular jobs? Everyone helping could add to confusion-too many cooks or something like that. Ugghh I am sure there will be some alluring stuff though so I will help however I can if we decide to go with a change for now I will appreciate what we have and all the great work the judges have done.