Discussion - LEW 4th Edition

Rystil Arden · Nov 16, 2007

Wik said:
I agree that pantheon bloat could be a problem, and IS a problem (I still don't know all the LEW deities... or Eberron deities, for that matter).

I really think a list of seven to nine deities, AND NO MORE, would be great. We can add minor angels, saints, and demon gods later on, that are mechanically similar to deities. But keeping the initial god list low is an excellent idea.

However, connecting that to the PHB might be a poor idea. I really don't want to see followers of Pelor, Kord, and Bahamaut in L4W, for the simple reason that those gods are D&D expectations, and not OGL expectations. D&D is a seperate beast than a pure SRD game, which is something I think a lot of people notice after they've played their first PbP.

I think we should try to seperate ourselves, if not mechanically than stylistically, from the core books. Adopt a greek feel and model (something I'd totally be for). No Mind Flayers? No Problem. And all that.

While learning the pantheon could be tricky for new players, I think most people get the hang of it really quickly. Though, a lot could be said for simply adopting the Greek or Roman pantheon, names and all, and running with that.

I really really really don't like having a small set of deities. The Olympian pantheon would be interesting though, and much better. A smaller group of truly important prominent deities that pretty much everyone knows anyway, plus lots of more obscure ones too.

Bront · Nov 16, 2007

Wik said:
I really, really, REALLY think that L4W should have a gazeteer-type Player's guide, available as a free download, that outlines the basic geography and the general rules of playing in an open PbP.

Creamsteak: I like the idea of players being the movers and shakers of the world; I just haven't seen it happen. Until we can set up a system where experienced PCs can send inexperienced PCs on quests, where the PCs can have a role in deciding whether or not a nation should go to war, and everything else, PCs won't be movers and shakers.

Which gives me an idea, which I will post in a minute.

PCs as Movers and Shakers should be an increasing idea as they level up. LEW has a few characters who have gotten up to level 8-10, which is where movers and shakers in the world should tend to be around in 3.5E, or at least where they should begin.

Vanitri for example, has saved countless lives at the Chromatic Order, been a Earling Pit Champion, and is working on securing one of the most dangerous artifacts in LEW so no others can get to it.

Juliana meanwhile, has gotten involved in a war, and might end up carrying an artifact ~~to Mount Doom~~ to be destroyed.

And poor Cade is about to unleash the evil that will result in the mega adventure if he lives.

Meanwhile, I've had players be part of the movers and shakers at a major festival, and they've tangled with one of the largest illegal slave traders in Rheim (and possibly gotten some people killed in the process).

Wik · Nov 16, 2007

You know, I was throwing it out as an example, but the more I think about it, the more I think it could work.

We all know Zeus, Hera, and all that jazz. Really, just keeping the Olympian model, and adding a few other deities (Isis, which had a role in Roman mystery cults, is a big one), and we could have a huge amount of fun.

Set it in a vaguely Greek setting (and a land that followed a Greek Model geographically seems to have some traction), and we're good to go.

That doesn't mean the gmae is absolutely Greek, of course- there could be castles, dragons, and all that fun stuff - but I think a little bit of Greek flavour could really make the game COOLER.

Bront · Nov 16, 2007

Rystil Arden said:
I really really really don't like having a small set of deities. The Olympian pantheon would be interesting though, and much better. A smaller group of truly important prominent deities that pretty much everyone knows anyway, plus lots of more obscure ones too.

If we detail the important ones, and let the minor ones be detailed by players who don't want the major ones, that's fine.

I'd prefer to not use a pre-established pantheon, as it's kind of fun to create a new one, and doesn't require any prior knowledge to understand.

Wik · Nov 16, 2007

A pre-existing pantheon is sort of the best of both worlds. The newcomer player to the PbP probably knows a bit about Zeus, Ares, Athena, and whatnot (and there's a lot of balance to the Olympian gods). GMs can dig up rarer deities to fit their needs. And those who don't know about greek mythology can read it up (here or elsewhere), in the same way that someone who didn't know about LEW deities could read it up.

It just means that it's easier for the majority of people to get into the deities - and it'd really help for flavour of the world itself, which is a plus.

That being said, Norse mythology is another cool option, if Greek mythology doesn't seem to work. I don't like the idea of Babylonian myth, though, simply because I read too many archaeology textbooks, and how mesopotamian myth is portrayed in RPGs is far different than how it was actually practiced (a personal gripe, really).

Rystil Arden · Nov 16, 2007

Wik said:
You know, I was throwing it out as an example, but the more I think about it, the more I think it could work.

We all know Zeus, Hera, and all that jazz. Really, just keeping the Olympian model, and adding a few other deities (Isis, which had a role in Roman mystery cults, is a big one), and we could have a huge amount of fun.

Set it in a vaguely Greek setting (and a land that followed a Greek Model geographically seems to have some traction), and we're good to go.

That doesn't mean the gmae is absolutely Greek, of course- there could be castles, dragons, and all that fun stuff - but I think a little bit of Greek flavour could really make the game COOLER.

I recently did this to much success, unintentionally at first--I was home in MD for a weekend for an ENWorld Gameday, and my little cousins, who were staying with my parents and had never played D&D before, plus my youngest brother (who had) all bugged me for a game. When they saw the deity list and I was about to mention some typical D&D deities, the two of them asked if they could have Zeus and Kratos (if you don't know who he is, he's a god of might and brother to Nike, goddess of victory) as their deities. And then my little brother insisted on playing a size Small character (I didn't want halflings at that point, so I used the legends of the Argyreoi Daimones, the remnants of the silver age of man, so he played a fae with wind powers). Somehow I improvised a game and it was a lot of fun (they got to fight some harpies with an ancient Greek twist, a lesser Kraken, and then some Amazons).

But yeah, you don't even need to add Isis and Serapis--you can cover the goddess of magic well enough with Hecate, who adds an awesome and creepy witchery factor to it.

~Loves Greek Mythology Spikey

Rystil Arden · Nov 16, 2007

Bront said:
If we detail the important ones, and let the minor ones be detailed by players who don't want the major ones, that's fine.

I'd prefer to not use a pre-established pantheon, as it's kind of fun to create a new one, and doesn't require any prior knowledge to understand.

The Greek gods could be the "Gods of the West", where the West is the default starting region. Maybe people from the faraway exotic lands worship different deities.

Wik · Nov 16, 2007

Yeah. I'm all for Greek mythology.

I'm setting up a Roman-ish game, and I spent a lot of time wondering if I should keep Roman deities. When I eventually dropped them (for a few reasons, but mostly because I like a small number of well-detailed churches, and I didn't think I could do that in my campaign setting), I was a little upset.

I think a Greek-themed church would be really, really, REALLY cool.

Really, LEW already has the basis of a greek model (it's heroic, but relatively low magic), and I can't see L4W being much different. Hell, we could throw in Oracles, Amphitheatres, and Semi-Democratic City-states (as I mentioned a few posts ago) in no problem. And still have a mythic game that fits well with "points of light".

To go a step further, we could just set the game in mythic greece, but I think that may be taking a bit too far.

Wik · Nov 16, 2007

Rystil Arden said:
The Greek gods could be the "Gods of the West", where the West is the default starting region. Maybe people from the faraway exotic lands worship different deities.

I like "Gods of the Westerlands".

I think I stole that from a book.

Gods of the East, keeping with the real-world, could be Egyptian.

But, really, I'm in favour of keeping the campaign world small - not much bigger than modern day Greece, the Aegean Sea, and parts of the Middle East (and maybe a few jungle islands in the centre of the mediterranean or near Africa). I'd rather see well-developed areas that interact with one another and change due to PC actions over huge swaths of terrain that get introduced in an adventure, hugely transformed, and then are never mentioned again.

Rystil Arden · Nov 16, 2007

Wik said:
Yeah. I'm all for Greek mythology.

I'm setting up a Roman-ish game, and I spent a lot of time wondering if I should keep Roman deities. When I eventually dropped them (for a few reasons, but mostly because I like a small number of well-detailed churches, and I didn't think I could do that in my campaign setting), I was a little upset.

I think a Greek-themed church would be really, really, REALLY cool.

Really, LEW already has the basis of a greek model (it's heroic, but relatively low magic), and I can't see L4W being much different. Hell, we could throw in Oracles, Amphitheatres, and Semi-Democratic City-states (as I mentioned a few posts ago) in no problem. And still have a mythic game that fits well with "points of light".

To go a step further, we could just set the game in mythic greece, but I think that may be taking a bit too far.

Yeah, mythic GreekISH is the key--we don't want to adopt it whole cloth (although we might, frex, have a warrior state with odd Communist tendencies that looks kind of like Sparta). Really, just by virtue of all the arcane magic it will be different. Also, the races--the flavour they've released on races so far looks very BLAH, so we may want to make some of our own to foster our own feel. Also, if we want to include races that are playable from the MM (and maybe not include one from the PH if it just jars, like if they put Warforged in the PH foolishly), I think that's cool too.

Discussion - LEW 4th Edition

Rystil Arden

First Post

Bront

The man with the probe

Wik

First Post

Bront

The man with the probe

Wik

First Post

Rystil Arden

First Post

Rystil Arden

First Post

Wik

First Post

Wik

First Post

Rystil Arden

First Post

Similar Threads