Running a site based adventure round by round

Stormborn · Sep 3, 2007

In a discussion with the current DM of our group the idea of running a site based adventure and keeping track of time round by round for the entire site came up. Essentially that means the PCs enter the site and from that point on things are tracked as if they were in combat, regardless of the actual types of actions being performed. Initiative is rolled at the begining and NPCs and enemies act either before the PCs (coming in at the end of the 'previous' round) if they have detected them in some way or are able to prepare for them or, if taken unaware, at the end of the 'current' round. The site in question happens to be a Drow fortress in the Demonweb so it is assumed that most, but possibly not all, of the inhabitants are 'on alert' and thus will never be completly suprised.

I observed some possible problems:

- When a barbarian rages how do you determine what constitutes the "end of the encounter" (this would be a problem for some other classes, such as those in Bo9S, but the Barbarian is the only character in our group with mechanics based on 'encounters')
- determining how many rounds certain skill checks take - I know that the skill descriptions list it for some but as we rarely make skill checks other than the ovious ones like Knowledge, Tumble, and UMD in 'combat' the counting of rounds may be problematic.
- How do you determine how long 'in character' PC interactions take?
- making the players aware that everything is being counted in 'rounds' basically says to them 'there is no hope of diplomacy here so don't try it.'
-what happens if the PCs are suprised?

Her goal is to try and make the PCs, and the players, feel a sense of urgency and danger. I found the idea interesting but am unsure of how it would work out in play.

Has anyone ever done anything similar? If so how did it work out? If not, what would you suggest for adding that desired feeling of urgency to a site based adventure?

Mark · Sep 3, 2007

Stormborn said:
- When a barbarian rages how do you determine what constitutes the "end of the encounter" (this would be a problem for some other classes, such as those in Bo9S, but the Barbarian is the only character in our group with mechanics based on 'encounters')

Let it run its course or allow the player to cease as he sees fit.

SRD said:
A fit of rage lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the character’s (newly improved) Constitution modifier. A barbarian may prematurely end his rage.

Stormborn said:
- determining how many rounds certain skill checks take - I know that the skill descriptions list it for some but as we rarely make skill checks other than the ovious ones like Knowledge, Tumble, and UMD in 'combat' the counting of rounds may be problematic.

SRD said:
Time and Skill Checks
Using a skill might take a round, take no time, or take several rounds or even longer. Most skill uses are standard actions, move actions, or full-round actions. Types of actions define how long activities take to perform within the framework of a combat round (6 seconds) and how movement is treated with respect to the activity. Some skill checks are instant and represent reactions to an event, or are included as part of an action.
These skill checks are not actions. Other skill checks represent part of movement.

Stormborn said:
- How do you determine how long 'in character' PC interactions take?

Speaking is a free action but takes as long as it takes the player.

Stormborn said:
- making the players aware that everything is being counted in 'rounds' basically says to them 'there is no hope of diplomacy here so don't try it.'

Why? Allow them to waste time if they like. Drow defenders might appreciate the additional time to allow reinforcements to arrive. Be sure to note in advance how long it takes to get from zone to zone and area to area for those who know the terrain.

Stormborn said:
- what happens if the PCs are suprised?

Free round for the attackers.

Stormborn said:
Her goal is to try and make the PCs, and the players, feel a sense of urgency and danger. I found the idea interesting but am unsure of how it would work out in play.

Has anyone ever done anything similar? If so how did it work out? If not, what would you suggest for adding that desired feeling of urgency to a site based adventure?

Flight of the Bumblebee playing in the background? I joke but some sort of similar music playing lowly in the background works well to raise the level of tension.

Jeph · Sep 3, 2007

I'm gonna go ahead and ask the obvious question:

Why on earth would you do this?

What would it add? And it better add a whole hell of a lot, because cycling through the order of initiative for every. damn. thing is going to suck. Heavily. Fighter moves 60' down the hallway. Wizard moves 60' down the hallway. Rogue moves 60' down the hallway. Cleric moves 60' down the hallway. Figheter moves 60' down the hallway. Wizard moves 60' down the hallway. Rogue moves 60' down the hallway. Cleric moves 60' down the hallway. Fighter moves 40' down the hallway. Wizard moves 40' down the hallway. Rogue moves 40' down the hallway. Cleric moves 40' down the hallway. Fighter opens the door and moves 30' down the next hallway....

Why would you do this? Why not just say "We go through the door at the end of the hallway," ne?

Stormborn · Sep 3, 2007

The issue is not how long the rage itself lasts, but how long does the 'fatigue' experianced by the post-rage barbarian last given that the PHB says it lasts "until the end of the encounter."

Regarding Diplomacy or the lack thereof Mark said "Why? Allow them to waste time if they like." But thats my point, if you tell or otherwise indicate to players that rounds are being tracked the whole time the players will not fell that diplomacy is allowed whether or not the DM intends it to be so. As a player whenever I am told to "roll initative" that says to me 'because this guy is going to fight not talk.' As a player my perception, rightly or wrongly, is that if it takes places within an initative count diplomacy or other social intereactions are not viable choices for actions. On the other hand if a DM does not communicate that things are happening on a round to round count it goes back to my question about how to keep that sense of urgency.

Having PC interaction completly free eventually strains credibility. Conversations do not take zero time. It also removes that sense of urgency if you say "we can talk and make plans as long as we like because talking is a free action."

Rafael Ceurdepyr · Sep 3, 2007

Jeph said:
I'm gonna go ahead and ask the obvious question:

Why on earth would you do this?

I think Stormborn explained why, but since I'm the DM in question, I thought I'd explain a little more. I'm running part of Expedition to the Demonweb Pits. The PCs are about to enter the Fane of Eclavdra by stealth. As I'm not great at running a lot of NPCs on the fly (especially lots of magic users), I'm planning out what their actions will be. It occurred to me that I could figure out that, once the PCs engaged the drow (in whatever form that takes), I could list out by rounds what each of the NPCs actions would be, the ones that the PCs hadn't encountered yet.

I'm leaning more toward an approach with "T=PCs encounter first NPCs, T+5 mins., drow #3 does this, T+10 mins, drow #4 does this." My reasoning for the one big encounter idea was to heighten the excitement.

Mark · Sep 3, 2007

Stormborn said:
The issue is not how long the rage itself lasts, but how long does the 'fatigue' experianced by the post-rage barbarian last given that the PHB says it lasts "until the end of the encounter."

Have it kick in at the end of the Rage and last until there are no longer any foes with which to engage

Stormborn said:
Regarding Diplomacy or the lack thereof Mark said "Why? Allow them to waste time if they like." But thats my point, if you tell or otherwise indicate to players that rounds are being tracked the whole time the players will not fell that diplomacy is allowed whether or not the DM intends it to be so. As a player whenever I am told to "roll initative" that says to me 'because this guy is going to fight not talk.' As a player my perception, rightly or wrongly, is that if it takes places within an initative count diplomacy or other social intereactions are not viable choices for actions. On the other hand if a DM does not communicate that things are happening on a round to round count it goes back to my question about how to keep that sense of urgency.

But as of this discussion you no longer have that perception and the same discussion can be had with the other players.

Stormborn said:
Having PC interaction completly free eventually strains credibility. Conversations do not take zero time. It also removes that sense of urgency if you say "we can talk and make plans as long as we like because talking is a free action."

It still takes as long as it takes. If it takes me 20 seconds to say something, then it takes about three rounds. If I am doing something else that precludes my speaking (casting a spell), then I cannot speak.

Lonely Tylenol · Sep 3, 2007

Stormborn said:
Her goal is to try and make the PCs, and the players, feel a sense of urgency and danger. I found the idea interesting but am unsure of how it would work out in play.

Has anyone ever done anything similar? If so how did it work out? If not, what would you suggest for adding that desired feeling of urgency to a site based adventure?

I would run this slightly differently. When there are no enemies present, I would call a given encounter "over" but keep going down the initiative order established by the last combat, allowing each PC to act as though he or she were in combat. That way movement and actions are tracked very precisely, as are round-by-round magical effects. When an enemy is encountered, initiative is rolled again, and surprise is determined. That initiative order stays in place for the PCs until the next combat, etc.

I think that this version of your idea will avoid most of your sticking points, while maintaining the sense of second-by-second urgency. Players who stand around gawking will find that the rest of the party gets ahead of them, making it difficult to keep the group together. Stopping to loot the bodies would become tiresome on a round-by-round time frame, and so they'd probably just skip it until they're on their way out.

frankthedm · Sep 5, 2007

Stormborn said:
The issue is not how long the rage itself lasts, but how long does the 'fatigue' experianced by the post-rage barbarian last given that the PHB says it lasts "until the end of the encounter."

If you are not adverse to house rules, I like "The fatigue of rage last for as many rounds as you raged."