E6: The Game Inside D&D

shdwrnr · Sep 11, 2007

Kunimatyu said:
That's a bit problematic, as a +1 holy sword is a +3 equivalent weapon, and as such would require a 9th level caster, which is outside the range of E6 quite considerably. Even if it was possible to make a holy sword based on my feat above, I'd prefer not to because other +3 weapons are off limits.

The item creation rules say that, yes, a suit of armor or weapon must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus to have a special ability. However, it also says that when you mix enhancement bonuses and special abilities, you use the higher of the caster levels, you don't convert the special ability into an enhancement bonus. Thus, a +1 holy sword would be CL 7th (3rd for +1 enhancement, 7th for holy) and not 9th because of a +3 enhancement bonus equivilency.

What I would do is just retool the limits, just as the class levels have been retooled. Clearly a +2 enhancement bonus is the highest you can get since the highest core CL would be 6th. I would then limit the total bonus to +4 (down from +10, but still double max enhancement bonus). This would make a +2 Merciful Thundering Warhammer the mechanical equivilent to a +10 weapon.

Kunimatyu · Sep 11, 2007

Hrothgar Rannúlfr said:
I guess I'm missing something... Why wouldn't it have a saving throw for 1/2 damage? And, why would it ignore SR?

Very curious.

It's a ranged touch attack, single-target. It ignores SR because it's literally conjured acid, just like a Melf's Acid Arrow. Fireball, lightning bolt, and cone of cold cover the basic elemental types and area spreads (no, cylinder doesn't count), so acid is a single-target ranged touch attack, like almost all acid spells. Also, typically, ranged touch attacks never have saves for half damage -- scorching ray would be another example.

For those wondering, the "real" Orb of Acid works just like mine, but with a status effect on a failed save. Losing the status effect works nicely for lowering it to a 3rd level spell, IMO.

Kunimatyu · Sep 11, 2007

shdwrnr said:
What I would do is just retool the limits, just as the class levels have been retooled. Clearly a +2 enhancement bonus is the highest you can get since the highest core CL would be 6th. I would then limit the total bonus to +4 (down from +10, but still double max enhancement bonus). This would make a +2 Merciful Thundering Warhammer the mechanical equivilent to a +10 weapon.

That's one way you can do it, though I myself am not a fan of adjective adjective adjective weapons - I prefer weapons with one signature quality, with smaller, more tangential qualities addable via things like the MIC's gems.

For example, let's say you kill a dragon, and the eyes crystallize - with a few magic words spoken over them, you can merge one with your sword, giving it a faint echo of the dragon's flame (+1d6 fire), that sort of thing.

It really, really depends on the setting, though -- some things work well in one setting, and do not work at all in another.

joela · Sep 11, 2007

Ran a (hopefully future) E6 game over the weekend

Ran my first DnD game in nearly 20 years last weekend. Setting was a pseudo-OA/Lot5R with all the PCs starting at 6E+1 feat. Used Action Points and Players Roll All The Dice from UA. Learned a few things:

None of the players have ever played third level, apparently. Or at least in DnD 3.5. They were awed at just kickarsed they could be against CR 1-3 foes.

Playing heroes and champions of the clans (with entourage and retinue!) makes a BIG difference in terms of running one's character, apparently. Why worry about gold pieces or the power of your magic items when people are lowering their eyes/deeply bowing/kneeing before you while your servants carry you while provide you saki?

Stunts, stunts, stunts! Want your PC to run up the treant's back? Sure. Do a tumble check to avoid an AoO, then make either a Jump or Climb check against a DC 20? Did it? Now you're on its head. I'm trying to simulate Hercules/Xena and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon/Matrix/Lord of the Rings here, not a tactical wargame.

Basically, if you treat the PCs as heroes -- and bend the rules to do so -- I don't think it should be too much of a problem to sixth level as the "sweet spot". I hope that, if they continue to enjoy my games, they'll ask it to be a part of our monthly game evening.

GlassEye · Sep 11, 2007

Kunimatyu said:
So, d6 x caster level, close range, acid touch attack, 3rd level slot, and ignores SR are the important things. Let's try:

Acid Blast (General)
Prerequisites: Arcane caster level 5, ability to cast Conjuration[acid] spells.
Benefit: By expending a 3rd level spell slot, you may fire an orb of acid as a ranged touch attack. The orb has a range of 25 feet plus 5 feet per two caster levels, and deals 1d6 acid damage per caster level, maximum 10d6. The orb ignores Spell Resistance, and is treated as a 3rd level Conjuration[acid] spell in all respects.
Special: If you prepare arcane spells, you may prepare Acid Blast as if it was a 3rd level spell.

Personally, I'd have it subject to SR despite the official orb spells. And I'd change the descriptive text to say 'ray of acidic spray' instead of orb just to avoid that reference to the spell.

Incantations have been mentioned before but I'll mention 'em again because I really prefer the incantation concept over making each higher level spell I want to include into a feat. This makes combat spells of a higher level unusable but I think when/if I get the chance to run E6 I'll make use of UA's Metamagic Components to compensate for that.

Kunimatyu · Sep 11, 2007

GlassEye said:
Personally, I'd have it subject to SR despite the official orb spells. And I'd change the descriptive text to say 'ray of acidic spray' instead of orb just to avoid that reference to the spell.

Oh, I'm ignoring the official orb spells -- it isn't subject to SR because it's the big version of spells like Acid Splash and Melf's Acid Arrow, neither of which allows SR.

It's the other elemental orbs ignoring SR that annoys me, but acid -- provided it's a single-target ranged touch attack -- doesn't particularly irk me balance or flavor-wise. It also creates a nice symmetry within the 4 3rd level elemental damage spells -- you can produce a line, cone, burst, or ranged touch attack, with the Elemental Substitution metamagic feat used to switch up on the types.

I'm reluctant to put "ray" down because of the potential interactions with the Split Ray metamagic feat.

Ry · Sep 11, 2007

Sonic Ray?

Kunimatyu · Sep 11, 2007

rycanada said:
Sonic Ray?

I'd rather just make a "3rd level substitution" feat for Shout, I think, since sonic is an extremely powerful energy type.

By they way, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the way I handled Cone of Cold - do you like the idea of it being a "normal" 3rd level spell alongside Lightning Bolt and Fireball?

Ry · Sep 11, 2007

Oh yeah, Cone of Cold should have always been 3rd level

This was the kind of thing I try not to talk about or do much of in my own game until players care, but honestly I think it makes lots of sense and fits the game well.