E6: The Game Inside D&D
Hrothgar Rannúlfr
Explorer
No... I'm not going to try and convert The Shackled City to E6.Kunimatyu said:
I was mainly looking at some of the villains to see what they would and could look like as Gestalts. Especially some of the low level villains that would work in E6. There's one that wouldn't even be 6th level and would still be quite powerful. And, that being the case, GE6 has a lot of different variations for villains that don't require every major villain to be 6th+feats.
Hrothgar Rannúlfr
Explorer
Thanks. I hadn't considered those as potential additional requirements for Improved Combat Casting. Either one sounds good, though. Even Improved Unarmed Strike sounds good, now, too, for a pre-requisite.rycanada said:
So, I crunched the numbers (you can see it in the Excel attachment).
End result: Fighters have the best damage, with TWF Fighters and TWF Rangers edging him out at low ACs (even a +2 Favored Enemy makes TWF Rangers beat out THF Fighters at the lower half of ACs, but that's situational). Giving Monks and Soulknives (with a larger list of mindblade enhancements and access to the +2 mindblade) full BAB progression doesn't make them anywhere close to being too powerful. They're not even close to a THF fighter's damage output. Since they have more-or-less melee roles in E6 and they can't wait for bonuses at higher levels to compensate, it's probably a good idea to houserule them to have full BAB progression in E6.
Note: I did not take Power Attack into account. If I did, THF Fighters would probably be even more ahead.
Thoughts: Since even with the no-penalty flurry, Monks come out pretty far behind Fighters, E6 should probably emphasize their role as Skirmishers. So, they should probably get some form of pounce ability with a feat.
End result: Fighters have the best damage, with TWF Fighters and TWF Rangers edging him out at low ACs (even a +2 Favored Enemy makes TWF Rangers beat out THF Fighters at the lower half of ACs, but that's situational). Giving Monks and Soulknives (with a larger list of mindblade enhancements and access to the +2 mindblade) full BAB progression doesn't make them anywhere close to being too powerful. They're not even close to a THF fighter's damage output. Since they have more-or-less melee roles in E6 and they can't wait for bonuses at higher levels to compensate, it's probably a good idea to houserule them to have full BAB progression in E6.
Note: I did not take Power Attack into account. If I did, THF Fighters would probably be even more ahead.
Thoughts: Since even with the no-penalty flurry, Monks come out pretty far behind Fighters, E6 should probably emphasize their role as Skirmishers. So, they should probably get some form of pounce ability with a feat.
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Hrothgar Rannúlfr
Explorer
E6 Vampires and +8 Level Adjustments
Do true Vampires exist in an E6 game? Or, should another template be used to simulate the vapiric traits?
Do true Vampires exist in an E6 game? Or, should another template be used to simulate the vapiric traits?
Yeah, I was playing with building an E6+20 greatsword fighter – barbarian 2/ fighter 4 seemed most advantageous – and it gets pretty mean.
It's not even like there's very many THF feats out there, but the ones that are there sure work.
I am not at all sure 1st-level mooks are going to present any kind of threat to this guy and he's 28 point buy and can't possibly be totally optimized.
I think the Epic Toughness feat is not a good idea; just going straight Improved Toughness + Ability Boost (Con) + Ability Advancement (Con)* + Toughness x 17 for an E6+20 is going to net you 63 extra hp, basically, double a front-liner's hp, which honestly doesn't look too unpersuasive. But making that 114 extra hp? Yipes.
*may as well get a +1 to Fort saves while we're at it
It's not even like there's very many THF feats out there, but the ones that are there sure work.
I am not at all sure 1st-level mooks are going to present any kind of threat to this guy and he's 28 point buy and can't possibly be totally optimized.
I think the Epic Toughness feat is not a good idea; just going straight Improved Toughness + Ability Boost (Con) + Ability Advancement (Con)* + Toughness x 17 for an E6+20 is going to net you 63 extra hp, basically, double a front-liner's hp, which honestly doesn't look too unpersuasive. But making that 114 extra hp? Yipes.
*may as well get a +1 to Fort saves while we're at it
Mustrum_Ridcully
Hero
Do you think you'll need True Vampires for PCs? Otherwise, only the CR modifier is important, and I think that one is okay. The Level Drain and Blood Drain abilities are pretty nasty in E6:Hrothgar Rannúlfr said:
Against Level Drain, all characters have only 6 levels to "protect" themselves against it, and I think there aren't many spells available to them that can reduce the dangers or heal the drain.
I would definitely recommend that you don't make negative levels permanent in the way you do in D&D 3.x - reducing the characters actual level below 6 would mean they lose all extra epic feats, which is certainly to harsh. Just put in a "level drain buyoff" (5000 XP for each negative level, just as for feats, and you must pay before you get something else for your XP)
More interesting might be the question whether you want to keep Lichs, since they normally require caster level 11 or so...
Hrothgar Rannúlfr
Explorer
I hope I never need a True Vampire as an option for PC's. To me, Vampires are monsters and they should stay that way. I was just wondering about the best way to build an E6 legal vampire and the Level Adjustment stuck out at me as making True Vampires non-existant.Mustrum_Ridcully said:
Interesting thoughts about the effect of level drains on the feats beyond sixth. I don't think that's been addressed, yet for E6. I wonder if Ryan's got any thoughts on this?Mustrum_Ridcully said:
I'm thinking just an XP deficit that must be paid before gaining another feat would be a start. I don't really like level drains, anyway. Especially, in 3.5 where it can mean re-writing an entire character sheet.
In previous threads, Ryan has suggested using the Bone Template on a wizard with lots of bonus feats to make a viable (and legal) E6 lich. That idea really works, for me.Mustrum_Ridcully said:
SRD-only PrCs that can be taken:
Assassin (flavor could be changed to allow for good assassins)
Horizon Walker
Elocater
Metamind
Psion Uncarnate
Pyrokineticist
Slayer
Thrallherd
Warmind
PrCs that can work with reduced requirements:
Arcane Archer (reduce BAB requirement to +3)
- Gets Enhance Arrows +1 and Imbue Arrows (with feats, Enhance Arrows +2 and maybe Seeker Arrows)
- Should get +1 level in arcane spellcasting class per level. Otherwise, reduce BAB requirement to +2, and increase spellcasting requirement to 2nd level spells.
Arcane Trickster (reduce arcane spells requirement to level 1 spells, reduce skill requirement to 6)
- Ranged Legerdemain, Sneak Attack +1d6 (possibly Impromptu Sneak Attack with feat)
Dragon Disciple (why bother?)
Duelist (reduce BAB requirement to +4)
- Canny Defense +2, Improved Reaction +2
Dwarven Defender (reduce BAB requirement to +5 or +4)
- Defensive Stance 1/day, maybe Uncanny Dodge (more Defensive Stance with feats)
Shadowdancer (reduce Hide requirements to 8, remove Combat Reflexes requirement)
- Hide in Plain Sight (in shadows)
Assassin (flavor could be changed to allow for good assassins)
Horizon Walker
Elocater
Metamind
Psion Uncarnate
Pyrokineticist
Slayer
Thrallherd
Warmind
PrCs that can work with reduced requirements:
Arcane Archer (reduce BAB requirement to +3)
- Gets Enhance Arrows +1 and Imbue Arrows (with feats, Enhance Arrows +2 and maybe Seeker Arrows)
- Should get +1 level in arcane spellcasting class per level. Otherwise, reduce BAB requirement to +2, and increase spellcasting requirement to 2nd level spells.
Arcane Trickster (reduce arcane spells requirement to level 1 spells, reduce skill requirement to 6)
- Ranged Legerdemain, Sneak Attack +1d6 (possibly Impromptu Sneak Attack with feat)
Dragon Disciple (why bother?)
Duelist (reduce BAB requirement to +4)
- Canny Defense +2, Improved Reaction +2
Dwarven Defender (reduce BAB requirement to +5 or +4)
- Defensive Stance 1/day, maybe Uncanny Dodge (more Defensive Stance with feats)
Shadowdancer (reduce Hide requirements to 8, remove Combat Reflexes requirement)
- Hide in Plain Sight (in shadows)
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