E6: The Game Inside D&D
- Thread starter Ry
- Start date
undead
Same here.
Since vampires are monsters, I'd view them as such and just scale their abilities to the appropriate CR. I'd look into deals with high-level evil creatures and/or incantations if the PCs were, for whatever, interested in such beasts.
I've seen such recommendations in the past where PCs have to pay off "negative xps" before they start leveling again. That could easily work with E6: a vampire-bitten PC with 15000 of negative xps from a vampire would be 3 feats behind the rest of the party before they could start accruing xps again.
As for lich, I'd either have the NPC make a deal with a high-level devil/demon and use incantation to make the change. This could easily lead to an adventure where the PCs are desperately racing to either prevent the creation of the lich or find some way to reduce its power. (Maybe through another incantation? A deal with good powers? Or temporary feats like a non-permanent Exalted feat to bring the smackdown to the lich on equal levels?)
Hrothgar Rannúlfr said:
Same here.
Hrothgar Rannúlfr said:
Since vampires are monsters, I'd view them as such and just scale their abilities to the appropriate CR. I'd look into deals with high-level evil creatures and/or incantations if the PCs were, for whatever, interested in such beasts.
Hrothgar Rannúlfr said:
I've seen such recommendations in the past where PCs have to pay off "negative xps" before they start leveling again. That could easily work with E6: a vampire-bitten PC with 15000 of negative xps from a vampire would be 3 feats behind the rest of the party before they could start accruing xps again.
As for lich, I'd either have the NPC make a deal with a high-level devil/demon and use incantation to make the change. This could easily lead to an adventure where the PCs are desperately racing to either prevent the creation of the lich or find some way to reduce its power. (Maybe through another incantation? A deal with good powers? Or temporary feats like a non-permanent Exalted feat to bring the smackdown to the lich on equal levels?)
Kunimatyu
First Post
Zelc said:
The way they exist in the previous message, you can only take one "prestige feat", and all the other abilities for a given PrC tree off of that initial prestige feat.
There hasn't been a unified way that Ryan's approached PrCs, though - it's really up to the DMs on whether or not they want to have PrCs at all. Me, I think I'll probably just ban them across the board, and let players lobby for unique PrC abilities to be turned into feats if they really want them.
AbuDhabi
First Post
Myself and a couple of friends did a bit of rewording/clarification/clean-up on the E6 feats. If anyone's interested, here they are:
[sblock=Feats][sblock=For Ability Advancement]Ability Training [General]
You spend time honing one of your Abilities: Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma.
Benefit: Choose one Ability; treat that Ability as having a +2 bonus to that Ability Score whenever you are making an Ability Check. This bonus does not count when making a skill check or for any other use of that ability.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times, its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat it applies to another ability.
Ability Advancement [General]
Your training pays off, and one of your Abilities increases.
Prerequisite: Ability Training in the same ability.
Benefit: Choose one Ability. You gain a permanent +2 bonus to that ability. This bonus does nto stack with the benefit from Ability Training.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times, its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat it applies to another ability.[/sblock]
[sblock=Capstone Feats]Martial Veteran [General] (comrade_raoul)
Prerequisites: Fighter level 6th.
Benefit: You may select feats with a requirement of up to fighter level 8, and with a Base Attack Bonus requirement of up to +8.
Special: A fighter may select Martial Veteran as one of his bonus feats.
Roguish Ability [General]
Prerequisite: Rogue level 6th.
Benefit: You learn one rogue special ability.
Special: This feat may be taken only once.
Barbaric Resilience [General]
Prerequisite: Barbarian level 6th.
Benefit: You gain DR 1/-.
Skill Beyond Your Years [General]
Prerequisite: Character level 6th.
Benefit: Pick a skill. Your maximum rank in that skill rises by 2.
Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time, it applies to a different skill.
Holy Strikes [General]
Prerequisite: Paladin level 6th.
Benefit: Your melee attacks are considered good for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Mighty Wild Shape [General]
Prerequisite: Druid level 6th.
Benefit: Choose a Large animal. You can wildshape into that animal.
Special: This feat may be taken only once.
Bardic Inspiration [General]
Prerequisite: Bard level 6th.
Benefit: The bonus granted by your inspire courage class feature increases to +2.
Extra Domain Power [General] (Shazman)
Prerequisites: Wis 17, Knowledge (religion) 9 ranks, Skill Focus: Knowledge (religion), Cleric level 6th.
Benefit: You gain the domain power of one additional domain associated with your deity or spiritual inclinations.
Special: You may only take this feat once.
Extra Domain Access [General] (Shazman)
Prerequisities: Wis 17, Knowledge (religion) 9 ranks, Skill Focus: Knowledge (religion), Extra Domain Power, Cleric level 6th.
Benefit: You gain access to the domain spell list of one additional domain assciated with your deity or spiritual inclinations. This domain must be the same one as that chosen for the Extra Domain Power feat.
Special: You may only take this feat once.
Restoration [General]
Prerequisites: Wis 17, ability to cast 3rd-level divine spells, Heal 9 ranks, Character level 6th.
Benefit: You can use Restoration, as the spell, but the casting time is 1 hour. You must provide the material component. You may use this ability any number of times per day.
Swift Metamagic [Metamagic] (Kunimatyu)
Prerequisite: Metamagic feats (see text), Caster level 6th.
Benefit: Pick a metamagic feat with an adjustment to the spell's level equal or less to the number of Swift Metamagic feats you already possess plus 1. You may apply this feat to a spell with no adjustment to the spell's level, as a swift action, once per day.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times. Each time, it applies to a new metamagic feat.
Caster Training [General] (Khuxan)
You become a more accomplished spellcaster.
Requirements: Caster level 1st, character level 6th.
Benefit: Choose a spellcasting class in which you have levels. Your caster level increases by 4, to a maximum of 6, for all purposes in that class. This increase does not raise your effective level in the spellcasting class, just your caster level.
Special: This feat may be taken more than once. Each time, it applies to a different spellcasting class.
Expanded Knowledge [General] (PoeticJustice)
Prerequisite: Character level 6th.
Benefit: Choose a spellcasting class in which you have levels. You gain an additional spell known at any level you can cast from that class' spell list.
Special: This feat may be taken more than once.
Expanded Casting [General] (PoeticJustice)
Prerequisite: Character Level 6th.
Benefit: Choose a spellcasting class in which you have levels. You gain an additional spell slot at any level you can already cast.
Special: This feat may be taken more than once.
Stone to Flesh [General]
Prerequisites: Int 17, Craft (Alchemy) 9 Ranks, ability to cast 3rd-level arcane spells, character level 6th.
Benefit: You can use stone to flesh, as the spell, but with an expensive and secret magical ingredient with a market value of 1000 gp and a casting time of 1 day.
Excelling Flurry [General]
Prereq: Monk level 6th.
Benefit: You use Flurry of Blows with no penalty to your attack bonus. In addition, you qualify for feats that a Monk may take as 6th level bonus feats.
Step of the Wild Lands [General]
Prereq: Ranger level 6th.
Benefit: You gain the Woodland Stride and Swift Tracking abilities, as the ranger class features.
Wondrous Rings [General]
Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, character level 6th, caster level 6th.
Benefit: For the purpose of meeting item creation prerequisites, you are treated as having Forge Ring, as if rings were wondrous items. You must still meet caster level requirements for any ring you create.[/sblock]
[sblock=For Villains]
Mental Domination [General] (Lord Tirian)
You're able to subjugate certain people's mind.
Prerequisite: Having charmed humanoid with HD equal or less than your caster level.
Benefit: Choose a humanoid with HD equal your caster level or less, you have currently charmed. Treat charm person as dominate person against this person.
Special: This feat can be taken several times. It applies to a different humanoid each time.
[/sblock][/sblock]
[sblock=Feats][sblock=For Ability Advancement]Ability Training [General]
You spend time honing one of your Abilities: Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma.
Benefit: Choose one Ability; treat that Ability as having a +2 bonus to that Ability Score whenever you are making an Ability Check. This bonus does not count when making a skill check or for any other use of that ability.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times, its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat it applies to another ability.
Ability Advancement [General]
Your training pays off, and one of your Abilities increases.
Prerequisite: Ability Training in the same ability.
Benefit: Choose one Ability. You gain a permanent +2 bonus to that ability. This bonus does nto stack with the benefit from Ability Training.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times, its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat it applies to another ability.[/sblock]
[sblock=Capstone Feats]Martial Veteran [General] (comrade_raoul)
Prerequisites: Fighter level 6th.
Benefit: You may select feats with a requirement of up to fighter level 8, and with a Base Attack Bonus requirement of up to +8.
Special: A fighter may select Martial Veteran as one of his bonus feats.
Roguish Ability [General]
Prerequisite: Rogue level 6th.
Benefit: You learn one rogue special ability.
Special: This feat may be taken only once.
Barbaric Resilience [General]
Prerequisite: Barbarian level 6th.
Benefit: You gain DR 1/-.
Skill Beyond Your Years [General]
Prerequisite: Character level 6th.
Benefit: Pick a skill. Your maximum rank in that skill rises by 2.
Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time, it applies to a different skill.
Holy Strikes [General]
Prerequisite: Paladin level 6th.
Benefit: Your melee attacks are considered good for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Mighty Wild Shape [General]
Prerequisite: Druid level 6th.
Benefit: Choose a Large animal. You can wildshape into that animal.
Special: This feat may be taken only once.
Bardic Inspiration [General]
Prerequisite: Bard level 6th.
Benefit: The bonus granted by your inspire courage class feature increases to +2.
Extra Domain Power [General] (Shazman)
Prerequisites: Wis 17, Knowledge (religion) 9 ranks, Skill Focus: Knowledge (religion), Cleric level 6th.
Benefit: You gain the domain power of one additional domain associated with your deity or spiritual inclinations.
Special: You may only take this feat once.
Extra Domain Access [General] (Shazman)
Prerequisities: Wis 17, Knowledge (religion) 9 ranks, Skill Focus: Knowledge (religion), Extra Domain Power, Cleric level 6th.
Benefit: You gain access to the domain spell list of one additional domain assciated with your deity or spiritual inclinations. This domain must be the same one as that chosen for the Extra Domain Power feat.
Special: You may only take this feat once.
Restoration [General]
Prerequisites: Wis 17, ability to cast 3rd-level divine spells, Heal 9 ranks, Character level 6th.
Benefit: You can use Restoration, as the spell, but the casting time is 1 hour. You must provide the material component. You may use this ability any number of times per day.
Swift Metamagic [Metamagic] (Kunimatyu)
Prerequisite: Metamagic feats (see text), Caster level 6th.
Benefit: Pick a metamagic feat with an adjustment to the spell's level equal or less to the number of Swift Metamagic feats you already possess plus 1. You may apply this feat to a spell with no adjustment to the spell's level, as a swift action, once per day.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times. Each time, it applies to a new metamagic feat.
Caster Training [General] (Khuxan)
You become a more accomplished spellcaster.
Requirements: Caster level 1st, character level 6th.
Benefit: Choose a spellcasting class in which you have levels. Your caster level increases by 4, to a maximum of 6, for all purposes in that class. This increase does not raise your effective level in the spellcasting class, just your caster level.
Special: This feat may be taken more than once. Each time, it applies to a different spellcasting class.
Expanded Knowledge [General] (PoeticJustice)
Prerequisite: Character level 6th.
Benefit: Choose a spellcasting class in which you have levels. You gain an additional spell known at any level you can cast from that class' spell list.
Special: This feat may be taken more than once.
Expanded Casting [General] (PoeticJustice)
Prerequisite: Character Level 6th.
Benefit: Choose a spellcasting class in which you have levels. You gain an additional spell slot at any level you can already cast.
Special: This feat may be taken more than once.
Stone to Flesh [General]
Prerequisites: Int 17, Craft (Alchemy) 9 Ranks, ability to cast 3rd-level arcane spells, character level 6th.
Benefit: You can use stone to flesh, as the spell, but with an expensive and secret magical ingredient with a market value of 1000 gp and a casting time of 1 day.
Excelling Flurry [General]
Prereq: Monk level 6th.
Benefit: You use Flurry of Blows with no penalty to your attack bonus. In addition, you qualify for feats that a Monk may take as 6th level bonus feats.
Step of the Wild Lands [General]
Prereq: Ranger level 6th.
Benefit: You gain the Woodland Stride and Swift Tracking abilities, as the ranger class features.
Wondrous Rings [General]
Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, character level 6th, caster level 6th.
Benefit: For the purpose of meeting item creation prerequisites, you are treated as having Forge Ring, as if rings were wondrous items. You must still meet caster level requirements for any ring you create.[/sblock]
[sblock=For Villains]
Mental Domination [General] (Lord Tirian)
You're able to subjugate certain people's mind.
Prerequisite: Having charmed humanoid with HD equal or less than your caster level.
Benefit: Choose a humanoid with HD equal your caster level or less, you have currently charmed. Treat charm person as dominate person against this person.
Special: This feat can be taken several times. It applies to a different humanoid each time.
[/sblock][/sblock]
Mustrum_Ridcully
Hero
Hrothgar Rannúlfr said:
I don't think E6 forbids monsters with a CR above 6, just monsters with class levels higher than 6. So a NPC Vampire Fighter6 would have CR 8 (If I remember the CR modifier correctly), and two of these Vampires would make a challenging encounter for a 6th level E6 character.
If you want the Vampire to have a higher CR, that might be more difficult. You'd need a humanoid race with a higher base CR than player races. But I don't think that's really necessary. If you give the Vampire more hit points (thanks to feats gained after level 6), he should come off pretty dangerous, simply because it takes forever to take him down (Which is a pretty critical benefit if the Vampires keeps his Energy Drain ability)
(I just have to think of Buffy the Vampire Slayer - every Vampire automatically is a Martial Artist that can strike her and can throws her around, but only the _really_ important Vampires survive longer than a few "rounds". They probably all have a similar attack bonus but the important ones got more hit points)
Cheiromancer
Adventurer
AbuDhabi said:
I have to disagree with you where you reduce the ability score prerequisites from 18 to 17. Although it is a convention to do so in standard D&D, in standard D&D you also get a bonus spell at even ability scores. In E6 you can't get a bonus 4th level spell with an 18 Intelligence; there are no 4th level spell slots to get the bonus in. The feats with an 18 prerequisite are intended to compensate for this lack.
Interesting, you're right. In fact, there are VERY FEW +1 weapon enhancements that can be crafted in E6. Should we reduce the CL/ML of +1 enhancements to 6? It just doesn't seem like fantasy if we can't craft a flaming swordshdwrnr said:
. They should be rare, but not uber-rare like a +2 enhancement item. Someone already put up a list of the magical ones, let me add the psionic ones:Weapons:
Sundering: ML 5, +1 cost
Teleporting: ML 5, +1 cost
Armor/Shields:
Quickness: ML 4, +1 cost
Landing: ML 4, 4000 gp
Floating: ML 4, 4000 gp
Linked: ML 6, 6000 gp
Seeing: ML 5, 6000 gp
Heartening: ML 4, 720 gp
Ranged: ML 5, +1 cost
There are some others that have a low ML, but all of them cost more than 10k gold.
I'll do the Universal Items thing later.
I redid the spreadsheet. The THF Fighter really cements its damage lead, and the TWF Ranger now is worse (although not by that much) even with a +2 favored enemy bonus. Monks become much worse; EVEN WITH FULL BAB PROGRESSION AND NO PENALTY FLURRY, they're expected to do anywhere from 8.5 (AC 15) to 2.1 (AC 28 and above) less damage per full attack than a THF fighter (-5.53 versus AC 22). That's with a +2 Kama; with fists, it'll be even worse.
Oh yea, don't TWF with a Soulknife and expect to get much done. It's a trap! Maybe if you're allowed to put Psychic Strike on both weapons, then it MIGHT be worth it.
With this in mind, we might want to give each melee class its niche in E6, then encourage that with the use of capstone/superlative (see below) feats.
Fighters deal good damage.
Barbarians are tough and have DR (I think a superlative feat with the prerequisite of that DR 1/- feat that increases any DR they have, including from armor or some other source, by 1 point would be good).
Rangers can track and move through the wilds easily, and they get an animal companion (superlative feat that buffs their animal companion, maybe?).
Paladins out-damage everyone when they can smite.
Monks should emphasize their mobility; a feat that gives them Pounce is a thought.
Psychic Warriors have psionic powers and make the best grapplers.
Soulknives have the alpha strike of doom: a charging bastard sword mindblade with Psychic Strike, Power Attack, Greater Psionic Weapon, and Deep Impact fueled by Psicrystal Containment is a good way to lead off combat (around 49 average damage depending on strength mod). Granted, any fighter can pick up Greater Psionic Weapon with an extra feat for Wild Talent, but they don't get some of the other perks like the Psychic Strike or Deep Impact on the same attack.
[Superlative] Feats:
Going along the idea of "feats with prerequisites of # of feats", I thought of a new descriptor. Basically, all [Superlative] feats would start with a prerequisite of at least 15 feats. They all have "Special: You may only have one [Superlative] feat for every 15 feats you have." So the idea is, even though eventually people will have tons of regular feats, they will still only have a few [Superlative] feats, and we can make [Superlative] feats a little better since there is a throttling mechanism for them.
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