Devices in Arrays

D.Shaffer said:

I've been sorta wondering what I needed to do myself. I've been holding off on making any changes until I saw the results of this and the other proposal as they both effected my character.

I dont have Paragons so I have no idea what they did there, can you sum it up? As is, I'm thinking I might just skip the entire shebang and vastly simplify the character by just making it a shapeshift pool. The only reason I went with metamorph to begin with was to have a 'stock list' of powers so no one had to judge it on the fly.

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The character in Paragons, the character I was originally thinking of --Otherkin -- has three superpowered form and one non-powered form, with the powered forms being aspects of the 'core' person's persoanlity manifesting in response to various stimuli. The non-powered form has no powers or drawbacks, but all three powered forms have Morph 4 (Flaws: Action/Full Action, Limited to Metamorph only; PF: Metamorph 2) and the Involuntary Transformation (assorted stimuli) and Normal Identity drawbacks. I'm not sure "Metamorph only" is a valid Flaw, nor am I sure Normal Identity is appropriate, since there's no easy way to prevent the non-powered version from manifesting her powers.

However, looking through Paragons, I do see another character that does pretty much exactly what Mecha Musume does, too. Icon can "assume the powers and proclivites of a number of mythic archetypes encompassing figures from cultures and stories around the world." She's got a few powers of her own no matter what form she's in, and a big Container/Alternate Form for her archetypal forms (the most expensive one being the 'base' and the others being Alternate Powers of it); she also has the Noticeable Drawback (a 'nimbus'/ilusion of the assumed archetype appears over her).

I think this -- an Alternate Form deal -- would work best for Mecha, rather than Shapeshift, since Mecha's only got the four forms. She can add more forms in-play with Extra Effort, and 'between scenes' by buying more alternate powers. It'd work better than Morph/Metamorph, too, since MM does retain her same mind/personality no matter what form she's in (right?).

However, looking through Paragons, I do see another character that does pretty much exactly what Mecha Musume does, too. Icon can "assume the powers and proclivites of a number of mythic archetypes encompassing figures from cultures and stories around the world." She's got a few powers of her own no matter what form she's in, and a big Container/Alternate Form for her archetypal forms (the most expensive one being the 'base' and the others being Alternate Powers of it); she also has the Noticeable Drawback (a 'nimbus'/ilusion of the assumed archetype appears over her).

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Very interesting indeed! Does she have any alts within each archetype? For instance, if she has a samurai archetype, might it have both a iado slash Strike attack and a kyuudo shot Blast attack?

Rystil Arden said:

Very interesting indeed! Does she have any alts within each archetype? For instance, if she has a samurai archetype, might it have both a iado slash Strike attack and a kyuudo shot Blast attack?

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Nope, no Nested Alts there.

Hand of Vecna said:

Nope, no Nested Alts there.

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I see. Not knowing exactly what these 'mythic archetypes' are, I can only imagine that each of them is pretty darn boring if it only has a single 'action power' (Zeus can only throw a thunderbolt, Poseidon can only melee you with a trident, etc). I'd hope Icon can cycle between them faster than Otherkin can then. I guess she probably can if they're just alts and not a Metamorph.

Hand of Vecna said:

I think this -- an Alternate Form deal -- would work best for Mecha, rather than Shapeshift, since Mecha's only got the four forms. She can add more forms in-play with Extra Effort, and 'between scenes' by buying more alternate powers. It'd work better than Morph/Metamorph, too, since MM does retain her same mind/personality no matter what form she's in (right?).

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It's definitely a possibility, but I'm beginning to think Mimic with the Channeling option and appropriate limits might work better since you still have the problem of nested Alt. powers. Additionally, this way she can channel the forms of more then a preset 4, which was the initial intent before I (perhaps) oversimplified it. Maybe a combination of the two? Containers with the 'base' powers of a certain subset (Ground, Flight, Naval, Space) with a linked variable pool (Did Variable ever get approved as a legit 'power' for our use here? If not, replace with the appropriate listed power.) for any variations in those subsets? (Like if I went for an A-10 based aerial form as opposed to an F-22)

As for the personality...well, SHE thinks she does, but they do effect her a bit more then she thinks they do.

Rystil Arden said:

I see. Not knowing exactly what these 'mythic archetypes' are, I can only imagine that each of them is pretty darn boring if it only has a single 'action power' (Zeus can only throw a thunderbolt, Poseidon can only melee you with a trident, etc). I'd hope Icon can cycle between them faster than Otherkin can then. I guess she probably can if they're just alts and not a Metamorph.

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Some do indeed have more than one "action power":

• Icon's Trickster form has Illusion (all senses), Immunity (Interaction Skills), and Shapeshift. (Personally I'd be very leery about having a Variable Power in an Alternate Form.)
• Icon's Artificer form has Create Object, Enhanced Intelligence, Enhanced Skills, and Enhanced Wisdom.
• Icon's Champion form has Enhanced Con, Enhanced feats, Enhanced Str, Impervious Toughness, Leaping, and Super Str.
• Icon's Dark King form has Drain Con, Enhanced Feats, Enhanced Skills, and Summon Spirits.
• Icon's Great Mother form has Animal Control, Comprehend (Animals, Plants), Healing, and Plant Control.
• Icon's Horned God form has Confuse, Emotion Control, Enhanced Cha, Enhanced Con, Enhanced Dex, Enhanced Str, Fatigue, and Strike.

Technically, Icon can switch forms as a Free Action, but it'd certainly be an appropriate Complication to have her be stuck in on form for an extended period of time.

D.Shaffer said:

It's definitely a possibility, but I'm beginning to think Mimic with the Channeling option and appropriate limits might work better since you still have the problem of nested Alt. powers. Additionally, this way she can channel the forms of more then a preset 4, which was the initial intent before I (perhaps) oversimplified it. Maybe a combination of the two? Containers with the 'base' powers of a certain subset (Ground, Flight, Naval, Space) with a linked variable pool (Did Variable ever get approved as a legit 'power' for our use here? If not, replace with the appropriate listed power.) for any variations in those subsets? (Like if I went for an A-10 based aerial form as opposed to an F-22).

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Hrrmmm... an Alt Form for the basic stuff & a Linked Shapeshift for the variations could indeed work out.

I don't think Variable Power was ever approved as a power per se, so you may need to write up some sort of "Spirit Channeling" power and get it approved (which I don't think would be too difficult to write up). But I think just sticking with Shapeshift would work.

D.Shaffer said:

As for the personality...well, SHE thinks she does, but they do effect her a bit more then she thinks they do.

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That's a very good thing to know

I don't think Variable Power was ever approved as a power per se, so you may need to write up some sort of "Spirit Channeling" power and get it approved (which I don't think would be too difficult to write up). But I think just sticking with Shapeshift would work.

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Hmm, I thought I saw it approved, but that may have just been the similarly named power feat. Gadgets was approved though, right? With Gadgets and Shapeshift both approved, there's really no reason not to approve the more general Variable Power so that non gadgeteer heroes / morphers can use it when necessary. This is particularly true when you're taking away some of the ways to build characters without variable. I actually assumed we'd have Variable as an option for a rebuild of Martin.

Hand of Vecna said:

Hrrmmm... an Alt Form for the basic stuff & a Linked Shapeshift for the variations could indeed work out.

I don't think Variable Power was ever approved as a power per se, so you may need to write up some sort of "Spirit Channeling" power and get it approved (which I don't think would be too difficult to write up). But I think just sticking with Shapeshift would work.

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Mimic would probably 'fit' better as she's not actually turning into anything, just borrowing their powers with some very noticeable kibble effects when she does so.

Mimic: 5/rank-1
-All Powers : 4/rank
-Limit-Only Machines : -1/rank
-Extra: Continuous: +1/rank
-Extra: Channel (Variant, Replace 'Spirits of Deceased' with 'Spirits of machines' as the identifier, No Focus) : +1/Rank
-Noticeable Drawback: -1 Point

rgordona said:

This appears to be legal according to RAW but it is very unclear what happens when a device which is also an AP is removed from a character. Who can use the device? Can the character still use the other slots in their array?

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Bit of a moot point now, but I just noticed that the RAW actually mentions this to a degree. So in case this comes up in any other games...

Look under Alternate Powers (p 108)

If anything disables, nullifies, or drains any power in an array, all of them are affected in the same way.

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So if someone disarmed your device, you couldnt use any other power in that array until you got i back.