Does a change in DEX change init?

0-hr · Oct 3, 2007

If a character's Dexterity changes during combat, does their Initiative likewise change?

(Interested in rules rather than opinions - as I've plenty of the latter already

)

AnonymousOne · Oct 3, 2007

My understanding is that any effect which would change the Stat and hence the modifier of one attribute immediately effects the character.

If you cast Bull's Strength on a character his mellee and his damage output are immediately affected, so casting Cat's Grace on a character changes all things in which a DEX mod is factored.

Now this is before the Init. roll!

I can find no support that a DEX mod change will affect Init. after the Init. has been rolled. (But then again ... I miss things)

Bad Paper · Oct 3, 2007

No. Initiative measures a creature's reaction time for getting into the flow of combat. Increasing your initiative result would be tantamount to time travel or something. Note that even haste does not let you creep up the initiative ladder, though perhaps it should...

Darklone · Oct 3, 2007

Thirded. Guess the game dessies didn't want trouble during the battle with changing initiative.

AnonymousOne · Oct 3, 2007

Getting backed by Darklone is a confidence building experience...

mvincent · Oct 3, 2007

Note: being deafened (by a thunderstone or somesuch) means you take -4 penalty on initiative checks, but this isn't very useful after combat has started.

However, if you deafen (or reduce the dex of) someone on a surprise round (i.e. before they have rolled init), then their roll will be affected.

Zurai · Oct 3, 2007

Ki Ryn said:
If a character's Dexterity changes during combat, does their Initiative likewise change?

(Interested in rules rather than opinions - as I've plenty of the latter already )

No, fortunately. Once Init is determined, it stays the same for the entire battle. Unless you use the "roll Init every round" variant - but that's a lot of bookkeeping.

It's a good thing it works that way too, because there are several spells that would be useless if it didn't. Sign and Nerveskitter both come to mind (instantaneous increases to Init when it's rolled).

irdeggman · Oct 3, 2007

Unless you are using the DMG variant rule for rerolling initiative every round the result doesn't change. If using that variant rule then when rerolling you need to use the current initiative modifiers.

udalrich · Oct 3, 2007

If it did, you'd better be sure that on initiative 12, you didn't cast Cat's Grace on your friend with initiative 11. That would change his initiative to 13, meaning he wouldn't get to go again until the next round.

cheshire_grin · Oct 4, 2007

Zurai said:
No, fortunately. Once Init is determined, it stays the same for the entire battle. Unless you use the "roll Init every round" variant - but that's a lot of bookkeeping.

From the SRD:

Readying an Action

You can ready a standard action, a move action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, any time before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character’s activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action.

So you just ready an action that the highest-init character will trigger. It costs you one round, but for the rest of the combat (or at least until someone else pulls the same trick) you go first, every round.