Sahuagin -- new discoveries in undersea campaigning

Zzyzx · Oct 5, 2007

I've been putting together a water-based campaign (yes, with 4e just around the corner I am starting a 3.5e campaign).

And the sahuagin are really odd. Two points, one minor, the other almost a campaign-breaker:

1. Alignment: Mostly lawful, but fly into a blood frenzy when damaged. (This makes me wonder if I should relax the alignment restrictions on my barbarians.)

2. Powerful: Ability scores of the basic warrior in MM: Str 14, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 13, Cha 9. Compare that with the aquatic elves that I was planning on using as their main adversaries: +2 Dexterity, -2 Intelligence. So a net +6 intelligence average over the elves, and a lot stronger, tougher, and wiser (!).

And the malenti make perfect spies, something that I imagine the elves would have a hard time countering (freedom-loving elves and police-state-style identification to discover intruders not going hand-in-hand). Sahuagin are also more organized and each know their place, to maximize their individual advantages.

My elves don't stand a chance.

Zurai · Oct 5, 2007

Zzyzx said:
2. Powerful: Ability scores of the basic warrior in MM: Str 14, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 13, Cha 9. Compare that with the aquatic elves that I was planning on using as their main adversaries: +2 Dexterity, -2 Intelligence. So a net +6 intelligence average over the elves, and a lot stronger, tougher, and wiser (!).

MM uses the elite array for most monster stats. So, those Sahuagin are really not nearly so tough. Probably Dex -2, Str OR Int +2, Wis +2.

DandD · Oct 5, 2007

Nope, that's the standart array for monsters. There is a formula how you deduce stat modifiers from the ability scores in the book, after all.

Bagpuss · Oct 5, 2007

Zzyzx said:
My elves don't stand a chance.

From all the back story about Sahuagin that is the case, they are a major threat to any area they turn up in.

Zurai · Oct 5, 2007

DandD said:
Nope, that's the standart array for monsters. There is a formula how you deduce stat modifiers from the ability scores in the book, after all.

Oh, right, sorry. Was thinking monsters with PC classes for some reason.

Celebrim · Oct 5, 2007

Sahuagin have been a problimatic monster since day one. In the early module U3 there is actually a note about how the PC's don't stand a chance if the Sahuagin don't use weapons, so you should be sure that they use weapons to handicap them. Think about it.

I don't think they've gotten much better with 3.5.

a) Replace Barbarian class with the 'Fanatic' class. Remove the unnecessary alignment restrictions. Drop the wilderness flavored skills from the class list, and instead give the class the ability to select any two non-restricted skills as class skills to represent the special training from the fanatics unusual background. More or less done. Class gets 100% more useful.

b) Yeah, Sahuagin are your typical overpowered NPC race which for all intents and purposes must never meet anyone that isn't a PC. See Drow. I hate that sort of thing. I'd personally want to rethink their stats, but its not strictly necessary if your players aren't simulationist types that are going to think about this too hard.

Doug McCrae · Oct 5, 2007

Zzyzx said:
My elves don't stand a chance.

Well that's why they need the PC's help. Evil must always be stronger, to give the players something to do.

Aust Diamondew · Oct 5, 2007

Sahuagin abilities are +4 stength, +2 dex, +2 con, +4 int, +2 wis, -2 cha.

Purely ability score wise the sahuagin are superior.
And are probably at least equally as numerous as the aquatic elves (if aquatic elves are like other elves in their numbers).

So it would seem that other tactics must be used to fight them besides numbers, a stand up fight or out smarting them (as aquatic elves will not be able to routinely do this).
I think the elves only stand a chance defensivley, which is perfect, because defense as long term solution isn't good, means the PCs can come in and lead 'em to victory.
Sahuagin have 3 weaknesses:
Light blindness: This won't help much, not only can you not depend on lighting conditions being to your advantage but their blindsense +4 strength and +2 wisdom offset the penalties imposed and then some.

FreshWater Sensitivity: Perhaps your aquatic elves can take sanctuary in nearby rivers or lakes. Where the sahuagin if they attack will quickly become fatigued and exhausted giving the elves enough of an edge to win.

Water Dependent: The sahuagin can only stay out of water about half as long as an aquatic elf. In conjunction with the above your elves can travel overland from the ocean to inland lakes when attacked, lakes that are too far away for sahuagin to attack safely.
Alternativley if on a large body of land that water is on two sides of or on a large enough island. Big enough that it would take more than 6 hours to cross to the other side, your elves could just go overland and hide out on the otherside.

Edit: You could set up the aquatic elves as a prexisting civilization with superior numbers (because of cities), magic and technology. Have the sahuagin be invaders who while mentally and physcially superiour haven't has the time to develop what the elves have. This is pretty much the opposite of my above suggestions which pretty much force your elves into the position of fleeing nomads.

Korgoth · Oct 5, 2007

Do your sharkboyz have decent arcane magic? If they do, then I agree they're probably too tough: extremely strong, smart, numerous and organzied... moreso in all of these things than the elves. However, maybe the sharks don't have a particularly mature arcane tradition. It is, after all, "arcane". So I can see them with beefy clerics, but not a lot of wizards of any note. Whereas, even with the Int penalty, the elves might have the upper hand in high magic. Which might be enough to hold the sharks at bay, all other things being equal.