Monster Pantheon vs Racial Pantheon

JoeGKushner · Nov 3, 2007

So one of the goals of 4e seems to be elmination/reduction of deities.

Does that apply to the bad guys as well? Many monsters have their own pantheons. Will those entities be given the axe?

Taladas · Nov 3, 2007

I get the feeling that in the core default world there will only be one pantheon and all the gods are a part of it. That said I wouldn't be surprised if the MM entries mention specific gods for specific races. So while you might not get an orc pantheon you probable will still get Gruumsh.

But the default pantheon is just a common reference point. It has as much hold on people's games as the iconics do.

MerricB · Nov 3, 2007

JoeGKushner said:
So one of the goals of 4e seems to be elmination/reduction of deities.

Does that apply to the bad guys as well? Many monsters have their own pantheons. Will those entities be given the axe?

I really hope so.

Here we have the evil god Iuz in Greyhawk. His minions are... sworn to their own racial gods? Hang on a moment here...

When you have the main evil gods of a setting not actually related to the main evil creatures of the setting, isn't there some sort of disconnect there? I certainly feel that way. Corellon Larethian is now non-existent in my Greyhawk game because getting rid of him strengthens the role of Ehlonna, and also strengthens the ties between PCs and NPCs - they have a shared deity, rather than having 10 separate deities for 10 functions that are thematically related but someone decided it was a good idea to have a new deity here...

Cheers!

Belorin · Nov 3, 2007

Any race that is sufficently developed culturally is going to have a god or gods as part of that culture. Dwarves, Elves, Orcs, Drow, etc, have extensive pantheons do to over development of their cultures in core books, supplements and the like.
Beyond a racial deity and one or two supporting deities most of the other gods are expendable. Thus, any god or goddess attached to a monster race is okay by itself especially if that race has the capacity for clerical classes.

Bel

Spatula · Nov 3, 2007

I was never a huge fan of the racial pantheons but I can also see their place - they showcase the values & vices of each racial culture and make those cultures more distinct from the norm (i.e. humans).

I think that logically, every seperate culture will start off with its own distinct religous practices (including its own diety or dieties). What happens when two cultures exist side-by-side peacefully for generations is the question. Do the religions merge? Does one dominate the other? Or do they continue to exist as they always have - seperate-but-equal, in a sense? In your typical D&D world, the elves, dwarves, gnomes, and halflings are all pretty well integrated into human society.

Gloombunny · Nov 3, 2007

Arguing that there should be distinct racial pantheons because real-world cultures have their own pantheons/religions has two problems.

One, the default D&D assumption is generally that gods actually exist as powerful entities. If that's the case, then the idea that cultures develop their own religions doesn't hold. Bugbears will only have a racial deity if the set of deities happens to include one who's only interested in bugbears, and how likely is that?

Secondly, different cultures and regions should be coming up with their own gods, not just different demihuman races. The elves in this forest probably have a religion similar to that of the humans on the neighboring plains, not the same religion as the elves in that other forest halfway across the continent.

Anthtriel · Nov 3, 2007

Hopefully the iconic gods (Gruumsh, Lloth and ... no one else?) will be expanded towards being general gods like Moradin and Corellion Larethian, and the rest gets cut. No one cares about the Kua-Toa god.

TwinBahamut · Nov 3, 2007

I think that if racial gods are vanishing and being melded into a general unified pantheon, then the same will happen for monster gods.

hong · Nov 3, 2007

Anthtriel said:
Hopefully the iconic gods (Gruumsh, Lloth and ... no one else?) will be expanded towards being general gods like Moradin and Corellon Larethian, and the rest gets cut. No one cares about the Kua-Toa god.

SNOT!!! SNOT FOR THE SNOT GOD!!!!

Mad Mac · Nov 3, 2007

SNOT!!! SNOT FOR THE SNOT GOD!!!!

I just want a gods name I can spell Blipdablipabloopdadoopwawoopdidoop?

I suppose a consolidation of snot gods wouldn't be amiss, so you don't have the god of hanging boogers vs the god of runny snot vs the god of warsnot vs the god of lovesnot.