D&D 4E Rumor control: Lucca 4e seminar report inaccuracies

thundershot

Adventurer
And a good ol' d20 logo can't still be used for that? Or an OGL logo?

4E can't get here fast enough.... I need to stop reading this board every day. I'm getting antsy. :D


Chris
 

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cougent

First Post
Scott_Rouse said:
We are looking to incorporate some sort of compatibility language within the new version of the OGL. Something like "Compatible with the 4th Edition of the Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying game..."
The shorter the blurb the better, but honestly that is a very "good faith" effort on your part... Bravo!
 

Maggan

Writer for CY_BORG, Forbidden Lands and Dragonbane
BadMojo said:
Yeah, it's certainly a big kick in the teeth for anyone looking to sell print products.

Comments I have read from publishers indicate that having the d20 logo was detrimental to efforts to get the book into the shops. I'm not sure if that's the situation now, but I think the d20 logo has played out it's usefullness.

Hence the reliance on own brands by Mongoose, Green Ronin et. al.

/M
 

WhatGravitas

Explorer
Scott_Rouse said:
We are looking to incorporate some sort of compatibility language within the new version of the OGL. Something like "Compatible with the 4th Edition of the Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying game..."
Okay, that way, it looks good, incredible good!

The d20 logo has a tarnished reputation, so I'm not sad to see d20 STL going, except for the "compatibility marker". And if that's introduced in another way - great!

Cheers, LT.
 

Henrix

Explorer
Scott_Rouse said:
We are looking to incorporate some sort of compatibility language within the new version of the OGL. Something like "Compatible with the 4th Edition of the Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying game..."
Excellent!
 

am181d

Adventurer
Wasn't there an aborted movement to create a "d20 without saying d20" logo five or six years ago? I think it was called "Prometheus" or something. It was a mark that folks could theoretically put on their books to designate "compatible with 3rd edition blah blah" without having to meet the standards laid out in the d20 agreement. I don't think it went anywhere then, but now might be the time for the the community to revive the idea...

(Of course it might be that the bigger d20 publishers now figure that they're established enough that they don't need any kind of specific mark. Without buy in from a few big companies like Green Ronin or Paizo, etc. the mark might suffer.
 

buzz

Adventurer
Wulf Ratbane said:
There will be no easy way to quickly (easily and visually) establish compatibility on the store shelf.
Perhaps the compatibility language Rouse mentioned will be usable as a kind of boilerplate. Also, didn't a couple publishers get together at some point to create a branding for OGL intended to be freely usable? (Oops! Posted simultaneously with am181d.)

I would imagine that, as you see pretty often today, companies will be able to just prominently display "OGL" on their products and achieve the same goal.
 

Wulf Ratbane

Adventurer
buzz said:
I would imagine that, as you see pretty often today, companies will be able to just prominently display "OGL" on their products and achieve the same goal.

Not exactly.

A publisher has two customers-- first, the retailers; then, the end consumer (the gamer).

For all that the d20 logo may have been poison to retailers, it was never so with the end consumer.

So for example, Goodman Games' Dungeon Crawl Classics (which by my reckoning has been in the Top 5 sellers for Impressions month in and month out for well over a year) continues using the d20 logo. The retailers already know that Dungeon Crawl Classics were a proven seller, and the d20 logo serves its purpose admirably for the end consumer.

In my opinion, the problem wasn't the logo, the problem was the retailers. Rather than inform themselves of the products they were buying, they poisoned themselves by just buying anything with the d20 logo, and quite naturally found themselves burned when they couldn't move the mountain of crap they'd purchased.

The players learned to be discerning long before the retailers did.

The d20 logo was never a mark of quality, neither good nor bad. Not all products with the d20 logo are good, but equally true is that not all products with the d20 logo are bad. And the retailers still can't be bothered to tell the difference.

That really, really isn't the fault of the logo.

The end consumer DOES know what the d20 logo means: It is a mark of compatibility. The d20 logo appears on WOTC products.

They don't know what OGL means. WOTC doesn't use any kind of OGL logo on their products, and I doubt they ever will. So the end consumer has to be re-educated with some new mark of compatibility without benefit of seeing the same mark repeated on WOTC products.

No 3rd party "OGL" logo will ever be as useful as the d20 logo is.
 
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Speaking as a "middle-tier" publisher, whose principal product line is died-in-the-wool d20 (i.e., Dawning Star), I will say that this raises a whole host of concerns for me about how to handle the line. We've kind of been in a holding pattern with the announcement of 4e, and this -- while I certainly wouldn't call it a kick in the teeth -- represents "turbulence while we circle the landing strip".

I understand why WotC did this, but it represents an entirely new landscape from what we've seen before and, therefore, necessitates new thinking about how to proceed.

Now the question is: When will third-party publishers get access to the ruleset so we can start planning products?
 

Wulf Ratbane

Adventurer
Justin D. Jacobson said:
I understand why WotC did this, but it represents an entirely new landscape from what we've seen before and, therefore, necessitates new thinking about how to proceed.

I'm still trying to square the relevance of the announcement with the manner in which it was made.
 

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