D&D 4E Rumor control: Lucca 4e seminar report inaccuracies

buzz

Adventurer
Wulf Ratbane said:
So for example, Goodman Games' Dungeon Crawl Classics (which by my reckoning has been in the Top 5 sellers for Impressions month in and month out for well over a year) continues using the d20 logo. The retailers already know that Dungeon Crawl Classics were a proven seller, and the d20 logo serves its purpose admirably for the end consumer.
But hasn't Goodman created a fairly recognizable brand with DCC, though? The d20 logo is only a small part of DCC's trade dress. Given the rep they've built, would removing that little logo really hurt them?

Wulf Ratbane said:
No 3rd party "OGL" logo will ever be as useful as the d20 logo is.
But for consumers who are aware of the d20/OGL concept, will the removal of the logo really prevent them from buying product?

The real issue is what happens with consumers who are not aware of the whole d20/OGL thing, assuming they are out there.

I have to wonder, though, if Role Aids could sell to AD&D players in the '80s by being sneaky, why can't current publishers sell to 4e players with license-approved compatibility language?
 

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BadMojo

First Post
Lord Tirian said:
The d20 logo has a tarnished reputation, so I'm not sad to see d20 STL going, except for the "compatibility marker". And if that's introduced in another way - great!

I'm pretty sure it did end up chasing retailers away after too much product and WAY too much bad product. I know of a few cases where really good books didn't sell because nobody wanted to touch third party D20 any more. That doesn't have to be the case forever. If 4th Ed releases to huge buzz it certainly would've been nice to have the same logo on your product as on the PHB.

I'm glad to hear about the "compatible with..." verbiage since something is better than nothing. I'm sure smaller publishers who can't rely on their own brand to catch the eye of retailers and customers will come up with some kind of solution. Rebuilding from the ground up will be a long process, I think. As others mentioned, maybe it's a good thing.

At any rate, chances are I'll at least be playing and enjoying 4th Edition. Hopefully most of the companies I am big fans of will survive, at least as PDF publishers.
 

Wulf Ratbane

Adventurer
buzz said:
But hasn't Goodman created a fairly recognizable brand with DCC, though? The d20 logo is only a small part of DCC's trade dress. Given the rep they've built, would removing that little logo really hurt them?

I am sure it wouldn't. The point I was illustrating was that, clearly, Goodman doesn't consider the d20 logo to be the poison that conventional wisdom says it is.

I suppose Joseph could explain why he still uses the d20 logo. He must have his reasons, he's a canny and very successful d20 publisher.

But for consumers who are aware of the d20/OGL concept, will the removal of the logo really prevent them from buying product?

No, but I don't think most consumers understand the distinction between d20 and OGL.

I think "most" consumers know what the d20 logo means (it means "compatible with their official books"); some subset of this group can discern between publisher brands (Green Ronin, Goodman, Necromancer, Paizo), and some smaller subset still knows the difference between an OGL product and a product bearing the d20 logo.

The real issue is what happens with consumers who are not aware of the whole d20/OGL thing, assuming they are out there.

Good assumption. I'm assuming that would be "most consumers."

EnWorld is a bad sample. We're all super elite gamers, here, with an IQ 40 or 50 points above the average gamer, and stunning good looks to boot.

I have to wonder, though, if Role Aids could sell to AD&D players in the '80s by being sneaky, why can't current publishers sell to 4e players with license-approved compatibility language?

They could. But I am sure most publishers would prefer to play nice with WOTC, and vice versa, as opposed to sticking a finger in their eye. (No particular finger specified.)
 

Bacris

First Post
Wulf Ratbane said:
They could. But I am sure most publishers would prefer to play nice with WOTC, and vice versa, as opposed to sticking a finger in their eye. (No particular finger specified.)

This is exactly my view.

I could just put a prominent "4E" graphic on my products that doesn't violate WotC trademarks, but it's hardly a) a standard or b) the way WotC wants to go. I'd rather have something that everybody (or at least the primary stake holders) agree is acceptable. :)
 

Henrix

Explorer
I think what both retailers and consumers need is a label, a method of sorting 'compatible with D&D4E' from other OGL and games.
 

Maggan

Writer for CY_BORG, Forbidden Lands and Dragonbane
Wulf Ratbane said:
IEnWorld is a bad sample. We're all super elite gamers, here, with an IQ 40 or 50 points above the average gamer, and stunning good looks to boot.

You forgot to mention that we are modest, as well. :D

/M
 



Henrix

Explorer
Wulf Ratbane said:
That would be the d20 logo.
But the d20 logo, in all honesty, does not quite do that. It has been used like that, but not all d20 games are really D&D3.x compatible. BESM d20 is hard to use with D&D.
 


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