I begin to worry...

WarlockLord

First Post
First off, I would like to state that I am NOT a 4e hater. I like the trend toward at-will abilities, the warlock, fey, etc. However, I am growing worried about 4e. One would probably wish to ask why.

I am worried about the magic system.

1) Sacrificing Fun on the altar of Fun I am worried about the loss of save-or-sucks. I can see the removal of the save-or-dies, though I might not agree with it. However, I have come across people complaining about paralysis and stun. There was a thread a while back entitled "What about when ruining your opponent's fun is your fun?" I think a large percentage of D&D spellcaster players would agree with this. Locking an opponent down IS fun, and, while it can happen to you, it makes your final victory over the BBEG much more fun. Also, in the majority of the playtest reports, the wizards seemed to be throwing around mostly fire blasts, implying that this is their strongest attack. I haven't seen any paralysis, stun, or anything except the sleep spell, and it looks like the wizard as controller will be mainly a blaster. Yes, there are some teleports, disguise self, that telekinetic strike thing and minor invisibility as the effects we know of. Also, has ANY 3.5 spellcaster cared about crits on a spell? I mean, they're nice on ray spells...but in 3.5, damage spells suck, and you have so many cool options anyway.

2)Anime Names Two Words: Emerald Frost. I have a friend who reads a heck of a lot of anime. He has assured me that this is quite the anime name.

3)Hit points If these things aren't wounds, then what the heck are they? They've been defined as a character's ability to turn a hit into a miss. So, what distinguishes a hit on HP from a miss? Most games I've played in describe HP as physical wounds, and now it looks like the casters will be shoehorned into damage.

4) The wizard is now a shadow Looks like the wizard will be stripped of much of his power, so that the fool with the metal stick can compete with the guy who can reshape reality with his mind.

Please assuage my doubts.
 

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HeavenShallBurn

First Post
WarlockLord said:
Please assuage my doubts.

Wish I could, but even though I held out hope for quite a while I've decided I want no part of 4e either. Far as it goes I can say this, don't worry about all this 'new' stuff they gush over. I've already managed many of the features claimed for 4e by extensive 3e House Rules.
 

Daniel D. Fox

Explorer
Seriously, it's a bit too early to be hedging these worries. You haven't even seen the CRUNCH of the system yet, just a handful of passing hints that simply don't give the entire context of how the system works.
 


WhatGravitas

Explorer
WarlockLord said:
Please assuage my doubts.
I cannot. But I can tell you: Except for your hp-fear (no 3), I largely share your worries.

But currently, I'm optimistic, because there are no definite crunchy teasers, and much is in flux.

I remain optimistic, until I can see the real stuff. Then, the phase of wailing and gnashing may start - but until then, I hope for the best.

But yeah, the worries are shared, so you're not the only one. Hope it helps - a bit.

Cheers, LT.
 

WarlockLord

First Post
(I realize there's no crunch yet, however, I just hope the WoTC designers take a look at this.)

But yeah, it helps I'm not alone.
 

Doug McCrae

Legend
WarlockLord said:
I haven't seen any paralysis, stun, or anything except the sleep spell, and it looks like the wizard as controller will be mainly a blaster. Yes, there are some teleports, disguise self, that telekinetic strike thing and minor invisibility as the effects we know of.
That's a good point, everything we've seen has been about damage and positioning so far. SoD is out, but what about debuffs such as ray of enfeeblement, glitterdust or slow? They may still be in the game, which would make things more interesting, but just haven't come up yet.
 

Doug McCrae

Legend
WarlockLord said:
4) The wizard is now a shadow Looks like the wizard will be stripped of much of his power, so that the fool with the metal stick can compete with the guy who can reshape reality with his mind.
Had to be done. Wizards have had too many powers for a long time. It worked in OD&D when there were three classes - fighting man, magic-user and cleric - but stopped working as soon as the thief was introduced. What was the point in climb and hide in shadows when the wizard could fly and become invisible?
 

FireLance

Legend
WarlockLord said:
4) The wizard is now a shadow Looks like the wizard will be stripped of much of his power, so that the fool with the metal stick can compete with the guy who can reshape reality with his mind.
Equality sucks when you were the one who had it good previously, right? ;)
 

WarlockLord

First Post
Doug McCrae said:
Had to be done. Wizards have had too many powers for a long time. It worked in OD&D when there were three classes - fighting man, magic-user and cleric - but stopped working as soon as the thief was introduced. What was the point in climb and hide in shadows when the wizard could fly and become invisible?

Hmm. Can't say I agree. It probably would've been better to give martial characters countermeasures instead of nerfing the wizard, such as better archery skills in addition to melee weapons, and enhanced hearing (think hearing the air in Bo9S) to counter invisibility. Fly marks you as a target for everything in the area. Climbing does not.

As for invisibility and hiding, true seeing can pierce invisibility, but it can't pierce hide.
 

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