Trouvere
Explorer
Proposed: that the variant Rogue that loses sneak attack but gains bonus feats as the Fighter be made approved content
'Feat' Rogue
Rystil Arden
First Post
I don't like the feat rogue--here's a thought experiment as to why: If I made a feat called "Improved Sneak Attack" that gives +1d6 Sneak Attack and can be taken multiple times, would you take it every time with a Rogue? How about a Fighter, but they could only take it with their class bonus feats (and it would be a better deal anyway for them because they get more attacks)?
That said, LEW has a dearth of feats compared to most games where I have banned the feat rogue, which could be a balancing factor that allows it to not be worth banning here. Still, the argument of "we don't have enough good feats approved yet for this to be broken" makes me a bit uneasy.
That said, LEW has a dearth of feats compared to most games where I have banned the feat rogue, which could be a balancing factor that allows it to not be worth banning here. Still, the argument of "we don't have enough good feats approved yet for this to be broken" makes me a bit uneasy.
I like this in principle, because I think a rogue-style stealth specialist shouldn't need to have one of the manifestations of that specialization be a potent combat move. I'm going to reserve judgement until
(a) I hear more discussion about balance issues (something I'm not that great with)
(b) We spell out what bonus feats are eligible. As with the fighter, I think class feats should be required to be related to the class flavour. So, for example, potential rogue bonus feats would include any skill buffs for rogue class skills. What others?
(a) I hear more discussion about balance issues (something I'm not that great with)
(b) We spell out what bonus feats are eligible. As with the fighter, I think class feats should be required to be related to the class flavour. So, for example, potential rogue bonus feats would include any skill buffs for rogue class skills. What others?
Rystil Arden
First Post
By RAW, they can use them feats on the Fighter feat list only (so they trade a big damage limited-utility combat move for eleven combat moves--if we had more feats available, this would almost always be a trade in the Rogue's favour, though now I'm not so sure).orsal said:
Rystil Arden
First Post
Yeah, bleh.orsal said:
If they made a version like the one you want, I think it would like it a lot. Frankly, though they don't have it in the SRD, if you're looking for a houseruled set of abilities to replace Sneak Attack for a stealth specialist Rogue who isn't really a combat backstabber, I can take a grab-bag from my variant classes that I use in some of my homebrews and propose it. It could be a nice option.
Rystil Arden
First Post
I always figured the way to do that is to multiclass Fighter/Rogue.Trouvere said:
Actually, speaking of multiclassing, I also forgot to mention one of the most important reasons I banned feat Rogue and Sneak Attack Fighter--the edge effect at low levels of multiclassing into them. Feat Rogue 2 / Regular Fighter 2 has 4 bonus feats at level 4 instead of 3, and many more skill points. Similarly, Sneak Attack Fighter 1 / Rogue 1 has 2d6 Sneak Attack at level 2 (which also allows this particular combo to break in early to PrCs with a Sneak Attack prereq like Arcane Trickster)
Trouvere
Explorer
Yep, but then you have sneak attack in the build again, which might be what you were hoping to avoid in the first place.Rystil Arden said:
Awful Will save, though.
You can do the same thing with Psychic Warrior, too, no?
Yes, that's a pretty unanswerable point (not that Arcane Trickster is a powerhouse or anything, but finessing early entry to any PrC is practically always something to avoid). Is that Sneak Attack Fighter / Thug approved for LEW btw?
Rystil Arden
First Post
Sadly yes, though the Psywar has less to give someone who's only in it to exploit feats and get the most they can out of it on the side (since that kind of character likely won't have enough Wisdom to get useful PP with 1 or 2 Psywar levels, and Psywar has only 2 skill points). The worst is when they do all three. Fighter2/FeatRogue2/Psywar2 has absolutely insane featage (6 bonus feats in 6 levels). They do lose 2 BAB, but the good news for them is that they can proceed to FeatRogue4 without losing any more BAB (and Psywar4 too if they had more Wisdom than expected). They can always take Iron Will as one of the many bonus feats they finessed.
Just because you have a tiny amount of Sneak Attack doesn't mean you'd have to use it though. Heck, you could just decide that for your character it was a 'Teamwork bonus' that applies when flanking and just never use it for flatfooted purposes. In that sense, it is little different than Weapon Specialisation, one of the feats you might take as a feat rogue, a damage boost.
I will eat a shoe if we allowed the Sneak Attack Fighter. Rae thinks we may have approved the Thug. That's a shame--it's a good idea, but it needs to pay something each level (like a HD drop) instead of just one feat to balance the skill gains at every level to be balanced.
