lorraine williams (includes opinions from Gygax et al)




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    lorraine williams (includes opinions from Gygax et al)

    maybe it's the lingering christmas spirit, but... i've always found a bit sad that lorraine williams's name is *so* reviled by the general D&D community. if there is one thing that unites D&D gamers of all editions is that lorraine williams is a hag, a bitch, an evil person.

    gygax said less than nice things about her. other people commented on her disdain on gamers and game designers. there are simply too many hints about a bad side of her personality to wonder for even a minute whether or not she's a kind of mother theresa of the RPG community, who somewhat was a victim of the circumstances leading to the fall of TSR.

    on the other hand, i can't remember which game designer told the tale of how he was still getting money from TSR when he was doing no work because of his wife illness.

    ... and then ... well, i'm sorry, but i loved TSR. i loved the 2nd edition of the game. i loved having dozens of published settings. sure, many mistakes were done. sure, especially after the mid 90s the stuff i bought increasingly seemed somewhat less exciting.

    for all the shortcomings of mrs. williams's personality, her TSR hosted some of the most talented designers in the industry. everyone has their favourites, but few companies out there can boast names like David Cook, Monte Cook, Bill Slaviscek, Skip Williams, Aaron Allston, just to cite a few.

    the sheer amount of ideas that were put out for the D&D and AD&D game during that time are simply incredible: you have dark sun, ravenloft, mystara, planescape, al qadim, and many more different takes on what a fantasy role playing game might be.

    of course, some of the business choices of TSR were just stupid and hostile (a couple of lawsuits come to mind...). of course, her nasty side is what people like to remember, because it's easy to say: "that moneygrabber bitch ran the company into oblivion" and because history is made by the winners. and, of course, many were angered because the company was not going far enough with changes and with allowing an internet community to develop.

    but don't you think that all the aggro attatched to her figure is a bit too much?

    if she really was the horrible person and short sighted manager that everyone likes to spit on, how comes that LOADS of gamers were thrilled and excited about the games produced by her company?
    (unless otherwise specified, the above post does not reflect my personal opinion, but a universal law of the universe. if you happen to disagree, you are welcomed to move to the next dimension. faithfully, spell)

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Spell
    there are simply too many hints about a bad side of her personality to wonder for even a minute whether or not she's a kind of mother theresa of the RPG community, who somewhat was a victim of the circumstances leading to the fall of TSR.
    Comparing Williams to Mother Theresa is far too kind--to Mother Theresa. AFAIK, Williams never let anyone suffer miserably just so she could feel enlightened. . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbastard
    Comparing Williams to Mother Theresa is far too kind--to Mother Theresa.

    Welcome to the boards, Robbastard. We have a "no politics, no religion" rule around here. We ask you to abide by it, and such critique of Mother Teresa is over the line.

    If you need to review, the rules are available in the FAQ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Umbran

    Welcome to the boards, Robbastard. We have a "no politics, no religion" rule around here. We ask you to abide by it, and such critique of Mother Teresa is over the line.

    If you need to review, the rules are available in the FAQ
    Sorry you took it personally, but if you'll note, I'm not the one who brought her up in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbastard
    Sorry you took it personally, but if you'll note, I'm not the one who brought her up in the first place.
    Dude, he's one of the moderators of this forum. He's just trying to keep order for all our benefit. You might want to take any private little comments or complaints like this to email.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbastard
    Sorry you took it personally, but if you'll note, I'm not the one who brought her up in the first place.

    Dude, I didn't take it personally. As a moderator, it is part of my job.

    You apparently did not read The Rules, as I suggested, or you'd know that you're not supposed to discuss things like this in-thread. Go, read the rules, and if you have further questions or comments, take them to e-mail with one of the mods. Our addresses are available in a post stickied to the top of the Meta forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spell
    if she really was the horrible person and short sighted manager that everyone likes to spit on, how comes that LOADS of gamers were thrilled and excited about the games produced by her company?
    For one, it's her company, not her. For another, "horrible person" and even "short sighted manager" rarely have much connection one way or another with "interesting thing producer"; in fact, the various settings cited as part of the shortsightedness are one of the exciting things about 2ed for many people.

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    sure, but... i hate to do this, but i have to cite it: palladium.

    kevin siembieda seems to be at least as difficult as lorraine williams. and there have been recounts of game designers leaving the company because they couldn't cope with mr. siembieda anymore, with fans stopping buying because the systems are in need of a revamp that palladium is not prepared to do, and so on.

    tsr never seemed to have such a bad name. sure, some people moaned about the moneymaking attitude... but there are people moaning today about Wotc for that same reason! you get them all the time!

    to put it in another way: i don't think that a company that many people were so fond off could have been run by someone that was really just a bad person.
    (unless otherwise specified, the above post does not reflect my personal opinion, but a universal law of the universe. if you happen to disagree, you are welcomed to move to the next dimension. faithfully, spell)

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    She doesn't bother me at all. I'm sure a lot of the decisions that D&D players hated back then stem from her but its all water under the bridge. D&D is still going strong, perhaps stronger than back then (Ok, so its a direction that I don't agree with, but...) so why worry about it. Theres no need to hate and despise someone who hasn't been on the scene for so many many years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spell
    kevin siembieda seems to be at least as difficult as lorraine williams. and there have been recounts of game designers leaving the company because they couldn't cope with mr. siembieda anymore, with fans stopping buying because the systems are in need of a revamp that palladium is not prepared to do, and so on.
    I would argue that Palladium has NEVER been nearly as popular as D&D and that since Kevin Siembieda is the original creator of the RIFTS game and company and certainly a gamer, the situation is markedly different. RIFTS, the most popular title that Palladium has ever released, has sold 250,000 copies or so in it's lifetime. That sounds like a lot, until you consider that's the size of a single print-run of a single version of the PHB from a single-edition. Had Lorraine Williams purchased Palladium instead of TSR, I sincerely doubt you'd see the same reaction.
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