Bite of the XXX Spells and Wildshaped Druids

Olaf the Stout

Olaf the Stout

Hero
The various Bite of the XXX spells from the Spell Compendium grant the caster bite and or claw attacks. How exactly does this work when a Druid is wildshaped?

What if that form already has a bite and/or claw attack?

What if the form he is in has no arms and/or mouth? What happens then?

And does the enhancement bonus to natural armor stack with the wildshaped creature's natural armor? (i.e. if the creature already has a natural armor bonus of +5, does the Bite of the Weretiger's +5 enhancement bonus to natural armor stack with this to give him a +10 natural armor bonus or does it stay at +5?)

Olaf the Stout
 
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frankthedm

frankthedm

First Post
Olaf the Stout said:
The various Bite of the XXX spells from the Spell Compendium grant the caster bite and or claw attacks. How exactly does this work when a Druid is wildshaped?
Click to expand...
They stack far too good.
 

Olaf the Stout

Olaf the Stout

Hero
frankthedm said:
They stack far too good.
Click to expand...

I agree, especially if the Druid has some Wild armor. Even without the extra attacks, the bonuses to stats and natural armor are very nice.

What I'm not sure about though is what happens when the Druid is wildshaped in a form that already has a bite and/or claw attacks. Or what happens if the creature he is wildshaped into doesn't have arms or a mouth.

And I just thought of something else. Does the enhancement bonus to natural armor stack with the wildshaped creature's natural armor? (i.e. if the creature already has a natural armor bonus of +5, does the Bite of the XXX spell's enhancement bonus to natural armor stack with this or not?) I might add that to my opening post so people can see it more clearly.

Olaf the Stout
 

E

Elethiomel

First Post
Olaf the Stout said:
And I just thought of something else. Does the enhancement bonus to natural armor stack with the wildshaped creature's natural armor? (i.e. if the creature already has a natural armor bonus of +5, does the Bite of the XXX spell's enhancement bonus to natural armor stack with this or not?) I might add that to my opening post so people can see it more clearly.
Click to expand...
Yes it does, just like if, say, a Catfolk PC (who has +1 natural armor) is wearing an Amulet of Natural Armor (that provides an enhancement bonus to natural armor). In both situations they stack. Bite of the Were* does not stack with Amulets of Natural Armor, though.
 

P

Pinotage

Explorer
I think it's probably clumsy design on the spell's part. It states a Range of Personal, but at the same time assumes the caster is humanoid and takes on some sort of animal visage.

The way I'd rule it is to make the spell replace whatever natural attacks and form that the wild shaped druid has with those of the spell. So a dire bear's claw and bite damage would be replaced by that created from the spell, but it would still benefit from the increase in ability scores, for example. The spells are transmutations, after all, so the caster changes form, and hence I wouldn't allow them to keep the best of the two damages from the bite and claw attacks.

Pinotage
 

Jack Simth

Jack Simth

First Post
Olaf the Stout said:
The various Bite of the XXX spells from the Spell Compendium grant the caster bite and or claw attacks. How exactly does this work when a Druid is wildshaped?

What if that form already has a bite and/or claw attack?

What if the form he is in has no arms and/or mouth? What happens then?

And does the enhancement bonus to natural armor stack with the wildshaped creature's natural armor? (i.e. if the creature already has a natural armor bonus of +5, does the Bite of the Weretiger's +5 enhancement bonus to natural armor stack with this to give him a +10 natural armor bonus or does it stay at +5?)

Olaf the Stout
Click to expand...
Technically?
1) You get extra bite/claw attacks.
2) Doesn't matter. You still get the bite/claw attacks.
3) Why yes, yes it does.
Chalk it up to poorly written spells.

Practically? Methinks Pinotage has it about right.
 

eamon

eamon

Explorer
Jack Simth said:
Technically?
1) You get extra bite/claw attacks.
2) Doesn't matter. You still get the bite/claw attacks.
3) Why yes, yes it does.
Chalk it up to poorly written spells.

Practically? Methinks Pinotage has it about right.
Click to expand...

I don't think 1) and 2) make any sense, but yes, in a literal fashion you might interpret it that way.

If you're going to replace the existing claw and bite attacks, I would further look at other natural attacks: consider slam, for instance, which I don't think makes any sense in combination with claw (for almost all creatures). Further, if you're replacing attacks, I would suggest that you should also correct for size differences. After you do that, it's hardly a nerf.

These spells are powerful - very powerful. And they even work with companion spellbond on your animal companion :) simultaneously!
 

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