Anyone use associated ability scores for skills?

s-dub · Feb 8, 2008

I was thinking of using associated ability scores for skills:

Basically, each character gets class modifier + 1/3 their combined stat modifier in skills.

Taking an average fighter (I think this conforms to point buy, not sure)

16
12
14
10
12
8

2 + 1/3 * 6 = 4 skills

The fight can put all his skills into STR based skills, 3 into DEX based skills, all into CON based skills, 2 into INT based skills, 3 into WIS based skills, and 1 into CHA based skills.

Temporary modifiers (potions, magic items, etc) would not add to this but bonuses from levels, tomes, and permanent boosts from class would.

This way your characters aren't hosed if they didn't put alot of points into INT at the start of the game.

Alternatively, you could do away with cross class skill and allow characters to purchase only 1 + positive ability modifier skills points per attribute:

Thus, in the example above, the fighter could put 1 point into a CHA based skill per level, but could put 4 points per level into STR based skills.

*Note, this system breaks down when using characters with unbalanced stats, such as a half dragon troll werebear, which would get around 13 skill points a level simply from the stat ajustments.

the Jester · Feb 8, 2008

This would hose skill-heavy classes, whose abundance of skill points is one of their attractive features.

s-dub · Feb 8, 2008

I disagree,

in the mechanics above, the rogue would have 8 skillpoints per level (twice the amount of the fighter):

If the rogue has the following stats:

10
16
12
14
8
12

Then the rogue can have have 1 STR based skill, 4 DEX based skills, 2 CON based skills, 3 INT based skills, 1 WIS based skill, and 2 CHA based skills.

It might make a little more sense to bumb up to 2+ modifier and any negatives take away instead of have no effect.

the Jester · Feb 9, 2008

I guess I'm not clear on how you're figuring this.

From your first example:

Taking an average fighter (I think this conforms to point buy, not sure)

16
12
14
10
12
8

2 + 1/3 * 6 = 4 skills

The fight can put all his skills into STR based skills, 3 into DEX based skills, all into CON based skills, 2 into INT based skills, 3 into WIS based skills, and 1 into CHA based skills.

If he gets "class modifier +1/3 combined stat modifiers" for skills, shouldn't this guy have 2 + 7/3 skill points, rather than 6/3? (Or were you just simplifying the math?)

I'm not sure how you're figuring out where he can allocate his skill points, either.

I think this is a bad idea- increased complexity for no real game benefit, not to mention that part of the attractiveness of Int is skill points- so (assuming I understand what you're proposing at all) you are, at the least, hosing intelligence as an ability score.

If you want to play a dumb fighter, you should get less skills than another character who has invested heavily in Int. And I'm still not sure how you figure that the rogue ends up with more skill points than the fighter- maybe you could elaborate some more? But basically, imho, this is a bad idea.

DreamChaser · Feb 16, 2008

don't forget that 8 Cha = -1 so 6 is correct.

Arkhandus · Feb 16, 2008

Aye, he calculated it right for the fighter.

But Jester's right about the unbalancing effect.

The Rogue, Ranger, and Bard get less out of one of their main benefits (the high skill points), because everyone gets a decent number of skills regardless; these three just get a little more. It's not a huge difference, at a guess, but it's there.

And this makes Intelligence effectively worthless for everyone except Wizards, though slightly useful to Rogues for Search and Disable Device as their key ability modifier. And a 13 is needed to get Combat Expertise for Improved Trip as a spiked-chain wielder.

But man oh man would those players be annoyed that they had to put a decent score in Intelligence when they could've had just as many skill points but more real power if they had just put the extra points (or the better rolled score) into Dexterity or Constitution, or even Strength, Wisdom, or Charisma.

Also, I'm not sure how this would handle multiclassing.

DreamChaser · Feb 17, 2008

to clarify that I'm understanding this right, here is what I'm reading in this system:

skill points (by level) = normal class base + (total stat modifier / 3)
thus making strong dumb fighters still able to use skills

but

the number of each type of skill seems to be limited to

1 + stat bonus (so a strength of 13 allows for 2 strength based skills while 7 allows for 1)

am I reading this right?

DC