Build for a Warrior-type Cleric (Core only)

I am about to start Age of Worms, and the DM is only allowing characters to be created from the PHB/DMG. I want to play a cleric, but we already have another cleric, so my character is going to be more martially-oriented.

He is a human cleric of Heironeous with the Good and War domains, so he uses a longsword as a main weapon. His stats are as follows (32-point nonstandard buy build):

Str: 16, Dex: 10, Con: 14, Int: 10, Wis: 16, Chr: 10

I probably won't multiclass, since I want the spellcasting progression to remain uninterrupted.

Feats and future feats are what I really need help with. Right now I have Combat Casting and Extra Turning, and get MWP: Longsword and WF: Longsword from the War domain. I'm thinking maybe I should have Toughness or something else instead of Extra Turning, but I'm not sure that will matter much at the higher levels.

Suggestions? Improvements?

Thanks in advance.

Combat Casting is pits. Id go with metamagic + persistent + DMM persistent. Then probably extra turning a few times so you could use it.

IamTheTest said:

Id go with metamagic + persistent + DMM persistent.

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I don't think the second two feats are available in the core rules; an constraint in the OP.

dnd3dm said:

Str: 16, Dex: 10, Con: 14, Int: 10, Wis: 16, Chr: 10

Feats and future feats are what I really need help with. Right now I have Combat Casting and Extra Turning, and get MWP: Longsword and WF: Longsword from the War domain. I'm thinking maybe I should have Toughness or something else instead of Extra Turning, but I'm not sure that will matter much at the higher levels.

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I can't say that I'm a fan of Combat Casting, except as a necessary prerequisite for a PrC. Skill Focus (concentration) is generally a better option as it can apply in more circumstances.

Toughness is a weak feat.

And what's your plan for the Turn Undead attempts? With a Cha of 10, I don't see much value in it, let alone taking Extra Turning as a feat to support it.

Legildur said:

I can't say that I'm a fan of Combat Casting, except as a necessary prerequisite for a PrC. Skill Focus (concentration) is generally a better option as it can apply in more circumstances.

Toughness is a weak feat.

And what's your plan for the Turn Undead attempts? With a Cha of 10, I don't see much value in it, let alone taking Extra Turning as a feat to support it.

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Those two feats are mainly placeholders left over from my first build, a more "cleric-y" cleric. I am actively looking for feats to replace them. And you're right, Toughness is a lame feat. It was just the one of the first things that popped into my head.

To a previous poster, DMM is not an option, since it's not in the PHB. Otherwise, I'd grab DMM, Persistent, and Quicken ASAP.

I was considering Unarmed Combat since I have a high Strength. Skill Focus: Concentration is a viable idea since the DM is making it tougher to defensively cast by making the opponent's BAB part of my DC. I won't get Power Attack until at least 3rd because the character doesn't have enough of a BAB.

Other suggestions?

Hrm. I think Age of Worms has a fair number of undead, but I'm not sure. So it's probably good to have decent Charisma and turning ability. But get rid of Extra Turning.

Dump 2 points from Intelligence and add them to Charisma or Dexterity. You'll want better Initiative and AC, or better turning ability. Combat Casting is helpful, but you might not need it right away.

Possible starting feat combos:
Power Attack and Cleave; these are strong at low levels, and although you'll only use a bit of Power Attack at any given level, it'll be more useful later when you get Divine Power; if you plan on using a shield alongside your sword, rather than using the longsword two-handed, then these feats will be somewhat less useful, but still helpful.

Martial Weapon Proficiency (Longbow) and Improved Initiative; a decent choice, for those situations when a foe flies or climbs or teleports outside your melee reach, or when you just don't want to get too close yet; you can probably afford to get a composite longbow that adds some of your Strength bonus to damage around level 2 or so.

Combat Casting and Toughness; if you just want to be more effective at low levels right now, these will at least help you stay alive a little longer, like when you need to cast a healing spell and don't want to take an attack of opportunity from a foe while you're at it; but they're not so good past the first few levels.

Combat Casting and Improved Turning; pretty much like the previous combo, it's not likely to be much help at the middle or later levels, but it's a bit better if you do expect to run into many undead.

Combat Casting and Improved Initiative; this will help out fairly well, but initiative is less of a major concern at low levels I think and Combat Casting is still not much use past the first five or ten levels.

Feats for later:

You'll want Improved Initiative at some point, but if you're not taking it right away, probably best to save it for 9th level or so, when your ability to react quickly will be more important due to spells like Flame Strike, Heal, or Restoration.

Scribe Scroll may be handy to pick up sometime, so that you can keep some emergency healing spells or attack spells on-hand without taking up spell slots. Stone Shape is also a good spell to have on scrolls, you never know when you might want to create your own doorway or something.

Quicken Spell and Maximize Spell might be good choices for the middle to upper levels, like 9th and 12th, or 12th and 15th. So that you can Quicken some spells like Shield of Faith or Divine Favor or Protection from Evil, and so you can Maximize some Searing Lights or Flame Strikes eventually.

Leadership should probably be chosen at 6th-level if the DM allows it, so that you can pick up another cleric of Heironeous as a cohort, to help out with healing duties and melee support. Or some other kind of cohort, if your group needs something else at that point.

Eventually, you'll probably want Spell Focus (Evocation), Spell Penetration, and perhaps Greater Spell Focus or Greater Spell Penetration. Even though you're not going to focus on the spellcasting side of things....you'll probably want at least Spell Focus and Spell Penetration at some point or another, for the tougher enemies, or something.

Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, and Spirited Charge might be useful, but I don't know if you'll be fighting in places where a horse or other good mount could fit, in order to use Spirited Charge for extra damage.

Improved Critical (Longsword) could be useful for 12th-level, but only if you aren't facing lots more undead than normal, crit-able creatures by that point.

Improved Sunder might be useful at some point if you took Power Attack and Cleave at 1st-level, and only if you find yourself up against some weapon-wielding opponents on occasion.


Lastly, as for what I'd probably do.....I guess Power Attack, Cleave, Improved Initiative, Leadership, Spell Penetration, Maximize Spell, Quicken Spell, and Greater Spell Penetration. But it might change based on the way the campaign plays out; I'd like to have Scribe Scroll and Improved Critical, for example, but can't be sure what I'd face or when I might have any opportunities to create scrolls.

I'd strongly encourage Endurance and Diehard. You don't have as many HP as a fighter or barbarian, so you're a lot more likely to see the wrong side of 0 hit points, especially at early levels. Staying conscious gives you a chance to heal or retreat.

For later levels, I'd consider Extend Spell as soon as possible. You should be making good use of buffing spells, and the doubling of duration is generally worth the slot level bump. Quicken Spell should be grabbed at 9th or 12th level. Improved Initiative and Lightning Reflexes may also be worth considering, as your Dex will remain poor.

You're going to see a lot (and more....) of undead in this campaign, with a low charisma it's not worth taking Extra turning unless you want to use Divine feats (non core...).
Improved initiative is always a good feat, acting before the enemy is great.
Go Skill focus :Concentration, better than Combat casting when you're taking ongoing damage.
The Power attack way seems great for you.
Iron will and Great fortitude can be a great help in this campaign.

Power attack + Spellcasting Prodigy assuming you are playing human.

Here's a few ideas for a core only martial cleric:

ABILITY SCORES:

STR - 14 (6) - Most efficient way to get decent STR; you have lots of buffs for this
DEX - 12 (4) - Maximize AC in full plate
CON - 14 (6) - HP are always good for a tank
INT - 10 (2) - You have some good skills but this is a dump stat
WIS - 15 (8) - Drop your level up stat boosts here and you'll be fine. Cleric tanks self-buff so high DCs are not needed
CHA - 14 (6) - Fuels Divine Might as well as helps Turn Undead and some nice skills

If Divine Might is not allowed, I'd drop CHA down to 10 and boost STR to 16.

SPELLS:

Your key buff spells are Divine Favor (I), Divine Power (IV), Righteous Might (V), and Quickened Divine Favor (V)

TURNING:

Turn Undead is quite weak unless (A) there are a lot of undead in the campaign or (B) you can use your turn attempts on something else.

If you have a positive CHA modifier, you can ask your DM to let you use the SRD feat "Divine Might." (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#divineMight) It is great and highly thematic.

CLASSES:

You don't want to lose any caster levels. With PHB + DMG that means sticking to cleric. The only possible multiclassing I'd suggest would be from the SRD, the Prestige Paladin (a 1 or 3 level dip) and the Human Paragon (trade Turn Undead progression and one level of spell progression for better skills and a bonus feat, and maybe a Martial Weapon Proficiency in something good like the Great Sword).

FIGHTING STYLE:

Unfortunately, in core only, Sword & Board is a bit underwhelming. If you are stuck with the Long Sword or the Heavy Mace, though, it is probably your best option early on. Later, once you have a decent to-hit and better defenses from spells/HP, you can drop the shield and go two handed on your weapon for superior power attack damage. If you don't like that idea, Magic Vestment can power up your shield some at higher levels.

DOMAINS:

The war domain is a trap, IMHO. The longsword is hardly better than a mace. IMHO, the best core domains are Luck and Travel. Luck has a great Granted Power as does Travel; Travel also has a great spell list. The Strength Domain is also decent due to the Enlarge Person buff.

FEATS:

1 - Divine Might*
1 - Weapon Focus (Weapon of Choice) - Its boring, but +1 to hit is something you'll use in every encounter. You may have gotten this for free with the War Domain, so see below.
3 - Power Attack - Highly handy for a melee type, not useful until you actually have some BAB to burn though! Better if you use a THF style
6 - CHOICE
9 - Quicken Spell

Skill Focus Concentration can also be swapped in for either Divine Might or Weapon Focus. Improved Initiative is another solid choice. Going first lets you drop an extra buff spell before the melee starts.

For the 6th level feat, there are a few choices. If you didn't take WF, SF, or Divine Might earlier, you can sneak it in now. Cleave is usually sub-optimal but it can get you an additional attack occasionally, and might be handy if crowd control is an issue. Improved Bullrush or Sunder can give you more tactical options. Craft Wondrous Item is likely the best crafting feat out there for sheer versatility's sake. Leadership is great if allowed. Mounted Combat is required for Prestige Paladin.