Noble Houses

Kzach · Feb 19, 2008

I'm creating a small kingdom using John Ross' Medieval Demographics guide and calculator. Very cool tool, btw.

So, anyway, it says in my biggest city of 25,000 people, that I should have 125 Noble Houses, not nobles in total.

I have a generic understanding of what a noble house consists of but I'm going for accuracy on this project so thought I'd look up the definition of a noble house on the net.

Surprisingly, there was little information, or at least, little I could find. There's lots of links on various gamers campaigns and literary noble houses and the book, "Noble House," but otherwise, zippidy.

So I was hoping someone could point me towards an easy to access source of information regarding the breakdown of what a typical noble house would be like.

Thanks in advance.

Tonguez · Feb 19, 2008

Here is the Wikipedia Article on Medieval Households and I assume that Noble House is equivalent to Aristocratic Households within that article.

Basically a Household would consist of The Lord and Lady and their children and grandchildren (or possibly extended family including parents and siblings, nephews and neices) and then various 'cohorts' and the family of these 'cohorts & followers'. The 'cohorts & followers' included Majordomo, Chamberlain and Marshals, Cook and various men-at-arms (for royal houses), valets, maids, grooms and pages The 125 listed by the calculator seems appropriate given that the other Nobles would be the siblings, cousins and similar relatives of a particular Noble House.

Mark · Feb 19, 2008

Tonguez said:
The 125 listed by the calculator seems appropriate given that the other Nobles would be the siblings, cousins and similar relatives of a particular Noble House.

I would also point out that not everyone from a noble family lives in the same town. Most of the first borns might be off where they have land. If more than one line from a family is landed, they might very well both be out, though they might keep a residence in town for trips in. Further, I would suggest that while one extreme might by upper end royalty, at the other end of the spectrum might be a down-on-his-luck son of an earl with one or two retainers keeping an eye on this sixth-born son with no prospects and a gambling problem being "kept" in a place by that earl out of a sense of obligation. I would further suggest most such houses would be a handful of family members with one or two servants or one per family member, perhaps a few extra if it is close to the head of a noble family or in line to someday be the head. There can be people who might trace lineage back 500 years to a baron who have no prospects whatsoever but are nonetheless aristocrats in the eyes of the peerage.

Kzach · Feb 19, 2008

Thanks! Good stuff

Pelwrath · Feb 19, 2008

Types of Nobles

You could also have different types as in how they became nobles. Some might be former adventureeres who ahh purchased their patenet of nobility, others might have earned it on the field of battle, but for the most part it would be inherited and these 'old blood' nobles would look down on the newer ones, especially thise that bought it.
What is the government type in your city? If a mageocracy, then nobility might be allowed only to mages and perhaps some clerics or others of lesser spell casting stuff. What is the alignment? Many questions but you've been given some very nice advice by others, hope it all works out.

moritheil · Feb 19, 2008

Huh. And to think that all that Underdark stuff kept the number of Drow noble houses down to below 20 in most cities.

Fallen Seraph · Feb 19, 2008

Well Drow noble houses are so much larger and more powerful then human ones. Human ones are just like family, hell look at Victorian period if you were any sort of wealthy, businessmen you could easily become "nobility".

Kzach · Feb 19, 2008

Well, the calculator is based off of the 1292 Census of Paris so not quite the Victorian era

It's actually a very interesting way to make a Kingdom as it spurs all sorts of ideas and plots and intrigues and adventure hooks as you try to imagine the layout of your demesne.

Like, with a very low population density, ie. 30 people per sq. mile (medieval France had about 100), and using 30 mile hexes (a pretty staple fantasy width), you end up with just under 25,000 people per HEX!

When you think about all the fantasy maps out there with all these barren hexes in between tiny villages, you get to wondering if the creators did any sort of research at all

Whisper72 · Feb 19, 2008

When looking at noble houses, a few things to think about, not necessarily all massively real world 'real', but nonetheless:

In general there are four types of noble houses:
- political leadership: i.e. the king, dukes, counts etc. who are in political control of the land including other 'lesser' noble families
- landed nobility: may not necessarily control other noble families and have massive political clout (although many do), but own a large piece of land which is essentially theirs. Within the boundaries of these lands they are essentially kings themselves.
- 'merchant' nobility: own businesses, small pieces of land with farms, rights to hunt etc. from which they derive income, but themselves rarely live there or visit. Usually live in cities and amuse themselves. Titles are hereditary.
- free nobility: these lords do not posses political power, are not landed gentry, but have noble titles usually received straight from the king himself. They are beholden only to the king, and not any other noble. Usually granted because of heroic behaviour or somesuch granting title and sometimes a small deed. Not necessarily hereditary.

In general, political nobility and landed nobility are quite rich, as they have plenty opportunity to enrich themselves. The free nobles might be dirt poor, and the 'merchant' nobility (for lack of a better word) can also be destitute if they make poor decisions in business.

Just some ideas.

Whisper72 · Feb 19, 2008

Oh and adding to the concept of a noble house; in general this is everyone with the same last name if you will. So, a noble house may span many nuclear families (through brothers, nephews etc. in a patriarchal system), although of different actual political and financial power per nuclear family.

Depending upon the ideas and system, the first son may inherit all (which is generally the case for political power or landed gentry), or the assets are divided, not necessarily in equal shares.