Gritty gone?
Page 1 of 9 123456789 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 87

Thread: Gritty gone?

  1. #1
    Member
    Cutpurse (Lvl 5)

    brehobit's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Posts
    1,977

    Gritty gone?

    OK,
    So I've largely run "gritty" games. And while 3.x wasn't the best for that type of game, it could be made to work, mainly by running lower-level games. I'm thinking 4e won't work for this at all. Low-level play isn't "that" low-level, lots of blasting, etc. Makes me sad.

    That said, 4e looks like a great game. Just not the type of role-playing I generally prefer. I've got the first 3 books on pre-order and look forward to reading them and playing some. But I very much doubt it will be my game of choice....

    Mark

  2. #2
    Member
    Novice (Lvl 1)

    Zamkaizer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    North Dakota
    Posts
    262
    Why not take this opportunity to try Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay? Doesn't get much grittier than that.

  3. #3
    Member
    Novice (Lvl 1)

    The Ubbergeek's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    600
    Powers at will =/= strong

    Too much grittyness is bad for a game, I say. It was the problem perhaps, especially older editions.

  4. #4
    Member
    Time Agent (Lvl 24)



    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Colombus, OH
    Posts
    12,559
    It won't be easy.

    However, if it was only the 'gritty' factor that was a problem in 4E I think I could manage to put it back in.

    Unfortunately, there are so many areas that I'd feel the need to overhaul that flaws like 'six hours cures all ills' are just minor parts of the whole mess from my perspective.

  5. #5
    Member
    Defender (Lvl 8)



    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Arlington, Va.
    Posts
    1,222
    Having played a lot of different encounters in 4e at the D&D XP over the weekend, I will say that the grittiness is what you make of it.

    We had two TPKs in the Living Forgotten Realms previews (I know ... embarrassing) and I also noticed that 4e is a DM-empowering game, in that he/she the DM gets to set the tone a lot more.

    If the DM is standard/nice then the of course the party will have 5 minutes between encounter to recharge some of their abilities. BUT, what if the DM rules that since the PC's enemies are aware of the party's presence in their precious dungeon, that they can't allow them to catch their breaths? In essence, a well prepared BBEG sends waves of minions (and more badness) out to harry the party, trying to force them to call off their attack.

    To go further, from a roleplaying perspective, nothing has changed. Its up to the DM to provide gritty flavor. The 4e combat rules merely shift complexity from one area to another in regards to 3.5.

    Likewise, I truly think that when they say magic items aren't required, its true. Magic items weren't decisive in most of the victories of the Delves I participated in.

    Also, as I indicated, character death is still very possible.

    Just IMO.

    C.I.D.


    I' m no 4e fan boy. I am on the fence as well. But it was still fun. Not sure if it will be a fun, overall, as 3.5 was.

  6. #6
    Member
    Time Agent (Lvl 24)



    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Colombus, OH
    Posts
    12,559
    Cyronax: I think it would be a mistake to equate 'grittiness' directly with 'lethality'. 'White Plume Mountain' is extremely lethal (probably more lethal than the more famous 'Tomb of Horrors), but it's not at all gritty.

    As I understand the term, 'gritty' implies 'versimilitude = realism'. That is to say, 'gritty' at least in part is an attempt to emulate something reminescent of the real world or a real historical period, often with the additional assumption that real world myths and legends were real. Hense, common features of 'gritty campaigns' are overt magic is somewhat rare, diseases should be prevelant and feared, injuries require some amount of rest to recover from, filth is common, the natural environment is to be feared and respected, travel is difficult, anachronisms are avoided, and so forth.

  7. #7
    Member
    Acolyte (Lvl 2)



    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    The Land of Oz
    Posts
    894
    I personally feel that Warhammer Fantasy goes beyond gritty, into dirtfamer.

    I've always gone to d20 modern/past for my gritty needs.

    As for 4e, I guess it depends on what you mean by gritty, if you mean, "heroic but human and bad luck can happen" then you can probably mess with healing surges, dying & crits to get what you want.

    If you have a problem with the action movie/mythic nature of the martial exploits then even with the help of your players it might not be worth the effort.

  8. #8
    Member
    Defender (Lvl 8)



    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Arlington, Va.
    Posts
    1,222
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrim
    Cyronax: I think it would be a mistake to equate 'grittiness' directly with 'lethality'. 'White Plume Mountain' is extremely lethal (probably more lethal than the more famous 'Tomb of Horrors), but it's not at all gritty.

    As I understand the term, 'gritty' implies 'versimilitude = realism'. That is to say, 'gritty' at least in part is an attempt to emulate something reminescent of the real world or a real historical period, often with the additional assumption that real world myths and legends were real. Hense, common features of 'gritty campaigns' are overt magic is somewhat rare, diseases should be prevelant and feared, injuries require some amount of rest to recover from, filth is common, the natural environment is to be feared and respected, travel is difficult, anachronisms are avoided, and so forth.

    I may/probably will concede that point (by the time 4e comes out). The recharge nature of many of the encounters of the 4e previews made me feel pretty powerful for a 1st lvl character. 1st level characters that are cocky have a better chance of surviving than in 3.5. That's not sooo gritty ...... according to standard definitions of gritty. As just a combat encounter though, the 4e rules were fun.

    Well met.

    C.I.D.

  9. #9
    Member
    Novice (Lvl 1)



    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    150
    Instant grittiness rule: Instead of regaining all your healing surges after a 6 hour rest, you only regain 1.

    Nightmare mode: You regain 1 per week.

  10. #10
    I do enjoy "gritty", not that I've played in too many gritty games... but I think house-ruling 4E might be possible...

    Possibly remove the teleport effects (or alternately, just use the four magic-less core classes), reduce the amount of HP damage you can sustain, and possibly introduce an exhaustion penalty with bloodied.

    Maybe do something to simulate long-term wounds.

    Edit: Goodknife has a workable suggestion, of course, I view HP in 4E as more morale/exhaustion, rather than physical damage, so I'm not sure if I'd use it.

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Similar Threads

  1. Getting gritty with 4e
    By Doug Justice in forum *General Roleplaying Games Discussion
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: Saturday, 28th June, 2008, 04:27 PM
  2. 4E and a gritty world
    By mach1.9pants in forum *Pathfinder & Starfinder
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Thursday, 8th May, 2008, 06:21 AM
  3. Grim 'n Gritty 4.0
    By Aus_Snow in forum *General Roleplaying Games Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: Sunday, 18th June, 2006, 07:45 AM
  4. Grim-n-Gritty Help
    By jchristl in forum *Pathfinder & Starfinder
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Wednesday, 10th November, 2004, 09:28 PM
  5. Grim & Gritty, What do you think?
    By cappun in forum *Pathfinder & Starfinder
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: Tuesday, 24th September, 2002, 09:07 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •