Ran a playtest adventure tonight

BASHMAN

Basic Action Games
So tonight my GM canceled my regular game, and I decided to go down to the college campus' DRAGON club and see if any folks would be down to play. I had a group of 3 girls, 4 guys, only 2 of which had played 3rd ed D&D before (the rest had never played an rpg before!).

I spent about 10 minutes having people choose characters & explaining what roleplaying is, the core mechanic of the system, etc.

We then began to play. I told them that they had been traveling together for 3 days, on the trail of a Princess who'd been kidnapped by foul beastmen (who slew her bodyguards as she made her morning ride) and taken to the tower of the evil wizard DunFalcon, an enemy of the kingdom.

Houserules: I realized that the game was more fun when I used some house rules, so that's what I did:
Action Points-- if you use your Daily or Encounter power and roll badly, you can use an action point to get a reroll (normally it just lets you take an additional standard).
Rolling attacks that affect multple creatures-- unless the power specifically says you roll separate attacks vs. each foe (like things that hit enemies in sequence, etc), I just roll 1 attack. If your defense is above the roll you saved, if it is below, you failed. So if the dragon rolls a 1 on his breath weapon, it means he sneezed or something and blasted it off the mark, and if he rolls a 20, the crit affects the closest target.
Rolling Initiative for multiplie creatures I just took the lowest init. modiifier and used it for all of the creatures in the fight, under the name "Evil". I do the same thing when a group of baddies is trying to hide, etc.
Healing Magic: I don't limit these to 1/round. If you can use lay on hands 3/day, you can use them all in one action (since each is a minor action).

First Encounter: The Kobolds in the Clearing As the Heroes approached, only the keen-eyed ranger (who was renamed "Flap-Jack") spotted the vile kobolds hiding in the brush (only his passive perception was high enough to see them). Alerting his stalwart companions, they readied themselves for battle. Initiative!

It was 4 kobold skirmihers & a kobold caster (500 xp value) vs. 5 pcs. The fight took longer than I thought it would (those kobold skirmishers have around 30hp each), with them eventually subduing the caster (he tried to run away, but the halfling dove after him w/ a flying tackle (a grapple check) and bore him to the ground. Questioning the kobold, they find out that Dunfalcon's tower is guarded by a red dragon!

Encounter 2: the Red Dragon. So there is no red-dragon written up for 1st level characters to dance with-- so I made it up using the black dragon from DDXP-- but made it weaker (a 500 xp version). I took -4 from all its d20 rolls and defenses, and lowered the die type of some of its attacks from d12 to d10. I also changed its blast to be fire instead of acid, got rid of its darkness ability, and only gave it 1 action point. I also decided to give it vulnerability 5 to cold just for fun, and changed its max HP to 100.

The group walks into a cave (which is the secret path to the wizard's tower) whereupon the Red Dragon drops down on them (it's body matching the ochre-hued cavern walls of its lair), and nobody's passive perception was high enough to match its 25 hide check. It immediately blasted them w/ fire. Then I called for initiative-- the dragon won. So it got to go again, and used its dragon fear-- and rolled a 19, so none of them were unaffected-- paralyzed with fear-- so the dragon went again (strking w/ both claws) and the Pcs could finally act (having to make saves or be at -2 to hit from fear). The ranger tried to sneak around it, and shot, missing, giving him a chance to strike w/ his tail. The Warlock & wizard both let him have it w/ their dailies; and the coolest was the paladin marking him so that if he attacked anyone w/o attacking the paladin, he took 8 damage and was at -2 (btw, there is no save for this effect). The Dragon recovered his breath weapon, and used it on the paladin & all but 1 of his friends, dropping one of them, and putting the paladin below bloodied as well. When a well placed arrow put the dragon to bloodied, he breathed his fire again, dropping their paladin (the only healer, as nobody picked the cleric). The fighter (who was also badly hurt) forwent his attack to pull the halfling to safety (& close to the only healing potion in the party). This incured an AOO from the Dragon, who missed, and took 8 Dmg for his trouble (the paladin's holy effect was still up, I was ruling, which was also why he kept attacking the halfling's unconsious body earlier). With a healing potion (which I declared worked the same as Healing Word) the Halfling was able to stand on his own two feet, the Warlock rolled a natural 20 on her dying check (so she got better, up to one of her healing surges in health), and the Wizard blasted him w/ a crit on magic missile. Realizing he was no longer winning, and only had 21 HP left, the dragon flew away to safety (since none of the party was next to it now).

I asked if they were going to camp or press on-- and they pressed on! They next faced an ambush by a Bugbear head-reaver, 2 Hobgoblin soldiers, & 2 hobgoblin archers. The headreaver charged in & critted the Dwarf for 24 dmg, bloodying him in one stroke. The fight went similar to the 1st one, but there was a chase scene after as the archers fled down a hall & the ranger clipped the last one at 38 squares away, taking him out, where in the night he was eaten by a trapdoor spider that lived nearby. They camped after this encounter.

Final Encounter: Rescue the Princess?
The PCs had finally made it to Dunfalcon's tower, only to see that Dunfalcon was a woman. She revealed that she was the lord's daughter & ran away b/c he kept her like a prisoner & was trying to force her to mary some royal jerk. Her alter ego, the wizard Dunfalcon, had been raidng her father's land for years, and she was getting ready to take it over (rather than let it pass to her younger brother so she could marry some guy she didn't want to). She then used her Dancing Lighting spell to great effect (Pounding several PCs close to bloodied) ordered her minions (human guards, also women) to take them out. The human guards went pell-mell w/ power strikes w/ their morningstars, & the ranger used his immediate action to step-back & shoot one of them. On his round, the ranger killed them both w/ Split the tree, so I declared that both arrows were eyeball shots (from 5 feet away mind you). The evil wizard was subdued by magic missile eventually & taken bound & gagged back to her father.

It was a fun game. I was surprised how easy it was for the newbs to pick up. It didn't seem to play faster as far as encounters go than D&D, but there was less waiting for your turn (it took more rounds to kill things though).

Some observations: The Wizard's player kept saying "well I magic missile, since their is nothing else I can do" and got a bit bored w/ that spell. "Running" is totally worth using-- it made the difference a LOT.

The game was fun, and there was plenty of RP this time around.
 

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WhatGravitas

Explorer
epochrpg said:
Houserules: I realized that the game was more fun when I used some house rules, so that's what I did:
Action Points-- if you use your Daily or Encounter power and roll badly, you can use an action point to get a reroll (normally it just lets you take an additional standard).
Rolling attacks that affect multple creatures-- unless the power specifically says you roll separate attacks vs. each foe (like things that hit enemies in sequence, etc), I just roll 1 attack. If your defense is above the roll you saved, if it is below, you failed. So if the dragon rolls a 1 on his breath weapon, it means he sneezed or something and blasted it off the mark, and if he rolls a 20, the crit affects the closest target.
I like your house rule. The first one goes a long way towards fixing "I missed!? - This sucks!".

And the second one is great, especially the bit about "closest to you/center square/whatever". Keeps the perks of a crit without mass-roasting stuff.

Cheers, LT.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
epochrpg said:
Some observations: The Wizard's player kept saying "well I magic missile, since their is nothing else I can do" and got a bit bored w/ that spell. "Running" is totally worth using-- it made the difference a LOT.

I hear this.

I got to play (thought not at D&DXP) and that came up - they gave people some more choices, but often one would be the only real one for the situation or be noticably better for how you are running the character (this differs from more powerful - for example playing the Halfling Paladin as a meatshield the bolstering strike for 3 temp HP was 95% of my at-will attacks, the other at-will attack got used once. It wasn't "better", it "fit more how I was using the character").

So .. basically it came to doing the same at-will most of the time, even for casters. Where that ended up was not "bringing the excitement and options of the caster to everyone", it was more like "bringing 'i swing my sword again' to everyone".

Mind you, that may just be a factor of 1st level characters. I'm still psyched for 4e.

Cheers,
=Blue(23)
 

Stalker0

Legend
Lord Tirian said:
I like your house rule. The first one goes a long way towards fixing "I missed!? - This sucks!".

And the second one is great, especially the bit about "closest to you/center square/whatever". Keeps the perks of a crit without mass-roasting stuff.

Cheers, LT.

I also like that houserule about criting the target closest. Though if I ever use it, I might say the crit effects the first two....as I'm technically depriving the player of getting multiple crit opportunities (ie his chances of criting are much smaller than if I roll against every enemy, so the crit should have a bigger effect.
 

ZombieRoboNinja

First Post
Blue said:
for example playing the Halfling Paladin as a meatshield the bolstering strike for 3 temp HP was 95% of my at-will attacks, the other at-will attack got used once.

You do realize that temporary HP don't stack, right? So unless you were getting hit every round, the 3 temp HP one would be a waste.
 

Andur

First Post
Let me be the first dissenter.

I think your first house rule is great, action points should grant several options, not just another action.

Your second rule I don't like at all, it negates the entire "law of averages" that 4e is shooting for and makes combat more swingy. Reverse it to 3.x and you'd be saying, "The Dragon Breathes, highest REF save rolls and everyone gets the result."

Not sure why it is so hard to just roll one different colored d20 for each PC...

Your third one is basically how I've always done it, just group creatures together by likeness, and go from there (all the minions go on one roll, skirmishers on another, casters on yet another is about as "complex" as I would go)

Your last one seems to negate even having a "healer" type in the party (a leader is what they are calling them now?). Lay on Hands thing I don't disagree with, but why bother with it if I can just healing surge myself til full again?

As far as the magic missile rinse and repeat, it is how a fighter always felt if you think of it. Problem playing with a limited ruleset and characters is you don't know what other options were available to choose from in the first place...
 

Banshee16

First Post
Andur said:
As far as the magic missile rinse and repeat, it is how a fighter always felt if you think of it. Problem playing with a limited ruleset and characters is you don't know what other options were available to choose from in the first place...

I've heard similar opinions from several reviews from sources other than EN World....that there is some concern about the fact that it seems characters do the same thing, over and over again. The other was that if you don't like the kind of game that the designers do in their offices, you might not like 4E.

Interesting to hear some dissenting viewpoints now that people who have actually tried it can speak up.

Banshee
 

fafhrd

First Post
Banshee16 said:
I've heard similar opinions from several reviews from sources other than EN World....that there is some concern about the fact that it seems characters do the same thing, over and over again. The other was that if you don't like the kind of game that the designers do in their offices, you might not like 4E.

Interesting to hear some dissenting viewpoints now that people who have actually tried it can speak up.

Banshee
I attribute this to Skamos's spell selection. Barring sleep he has a complement of effective but uninteresting spells (no, cantrips don't count when discussing the controller aspect of the class). I don't think it's a fair test of the wizard.

The ranger had a typo that made his Careful Attack too effective, so I imagine he played rather flat as well(haven't actually seen him in action though so I'm not sure).

The rest of the characters are tactically flexible and dare I say 'cool'.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Lack of choices is always the hallmark of first level. Sure, in 3e you could grapple, trip, overrun, disarm, and that sort of things. But, you would almost always fail if you tried those things at a low level, so they usually were not used anyway. First level wizards ALWAYS just magic missiled things, and I am not sure there is a lot that could be done about that (though a silent image spell instead would at least make them more creative). Heck I seem to recall in OD&D they magic missiled ONE thing and then just ran away with their dagger :)
 

Vomax

First Post
Banshee16 said:
I've heard similar opinions from several reviews from sources other than EN World....that there is some concern about the fact that it seems characters do the same thing, over and over again. The other was that if you don't like the kind of game that the designers do in their offices, you might not like 4E.

Interesting to hear some dissenting viewpoints now that people who have actually tried it can speak up.

Banshee

In a straight fight, it's going to make the most sense to use your most damaging ability every turn and that probably will get pretty boring, especially if you're fighting a big nasty solo with a ton of HP. I would hope the DMG has ideas for creating more dynamic, involved encounters that require the players to make use of a wider range of abilities than simply their strongest attack.
 

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