D&D 4E 4E PrRC ~v2.7~ FINAL UPDATE May 29.08

FitzTheRuke · Apr 2, 2008

RigaMortus2 said:
So what happens then if a Paladin marks the opponent, and then before that opponent gets to go he is somehow immobilized (or stunned) or knocked unconcious? He wants to get to the Paladin and fight him, but he is prevented from doing so by no fault of his own? Does he take the damage?

If you're talking about the opponent not being able to get to the Paladin, the damage only occurs if the opponent ATTACKS a target other than the Paladin, not if he stands around (or slumps unconscious)

If you're asking if the Paladin can't move to fight the marked opponent, I think the gist of the reworking is that the Paladin has to do his best to fight the marked target. The main point is to stop the Paladin from marking and running like a weasel.

Fitz

Bayonet_Chris · Apr 2, 2008

Complicating the issue?

I think we're probably making it more complicated than it has to be. I would also keep the onus of the power on the marked target instead of splitting responsibility - basically "If the marked target is able to attack the paladin and chooses not to, he takes damage".

This would include moving towards the paladin (so the target can't shrug its shoulders and not move, claiming it can't attack the paladin at all), although I wouldn't penalize the marked opponent for cutting through intervening targets on the way. It would give the paladin impetus to get up there and defend his buddies instead of hiding behind them.

I guess we won't know until the official wording is released.

Verys Arkon · Apr 2, 2008

I wonder if WotC Customer Service or Sage Advice is taking 4E questions yet?

"If the marked target is able to attack the paladin and chooses not to, he takes damage".

This doesn't fix the exploit that people were using, where the Paladin marked and then ran away. You'd have to say "If the marked target ATTACKS another target instead of the Paladin, he takes damage" (which is how the original is worded).

I don't think the problem was coming from the monster's/DMs side, it was the players that marked and then tried to keep out of reach with the idea that it would inflict damage that was causing the problems. I also think part of the problem is that people are misreading the power, so that no mater what the monster did, if it didn't hit the Paladin it would take damage automatically. As written though, the monster could do anything (except attacking someone else) and not take damage, including fleeing, chasing the paladin around, using defensive powers, etc. I actually don't see how the power needed to be 'fixed' in the first place, really. Okay, a paladin marking a monster then running away isn't exactly heroic behavior for a paladin, but picture a paladin luring the dragon away from his weaker allies, using himself as bait. He isn't causing the creature damage as he runs away, but the monster does have to pay attention to the paladin, or suffer his god's wrath for the impertinence.

Sadrik · Apr 2, 2008

What about the bonus Eladrin feat? Anybody figure that one out? The ranger has 2 feats and all other characters have 1 (except the human).

Xanaqui · Apr 3, 2008

I did some analysis a while ago on part of the topic you list here. The thread is here . Your Dwarven Weapons Training, for example, has the same defect that one of my earlier versions of my understanding of it does (it doesn't account for the fact that the relevant weapons are prof 1, thereby missing +1 to hit).

Simuarly, the +1 to AC you seem to be missing from the Warlock has a plausible description there (Leather is +3 to AC light Armor)

There's also a bit on ability score mods that may be of interest, along with other trivia.

ObsidianCrane · Apr 3, 2008

Don't know if this is reported but the Ranger Class is missing Nature from its Class skill list. I would also speculate that its an Automatic Skill for the Ranger.

Verys Arkon · Apr 3, 2008

Xanaqui said:
I did some analysis a while ago on part of the topic you list here. The thread is here . Your Dwarven Weapons Training, for example, has the same defect that one of my earlier versions of my understanding of it does (it doesn't account for the fact that the relevant weapons are prof 1, thereby missing +1 to hit).

You may be right, Xanaqui. In the model used in the PrRC for now, however, all fighters have a +1 to attacks (mentioned in a D&D podcast). So Kathra's +6 attack comes from:
+3 STR +1 Fighter +1 Weapon Accuracy +1 Dwarven Weapon Training.

Simuarly, the +1 to AC you seem to be missing from the Warlock has a plausible description there (Leather is +3 to AC light Armor)

it is indeed a plausible explanation (I mention it in post 102) , but I'm just having problems with two armors with +3 AC, especially since they've really reduced the number of armors they've chosen to leave in the PHB. Even though mathematically it works, its the justification that makes me hesitate.

There's also a bit on ability score mods that may be of interest, along with other trivia.

Your thread was one of the inspirations that prompted me to compile everything I could find, many thanks for getting the ball rolling!

Verys Arkon · Apr 3, 2008

Cailte said:
Don't know if this is reported but the Ranger Class is missing Nature from its Class skill list. I would also speculate that its an Automatic Skill for the Ranger.

Thanks for catching this Cailte, it will be in the next revision.

Also, while on the topic of Nature skill, do you think their is another +1 coming from some place, either class or race? Choose Wis or Int to modify it?

Nature 7 (5 training +1 Int +1?)

FabioMilitoPagliara · Apr 3, 2008

Splitting the tree: no effect on a miss, sorry

Burst description should be changend in my opinion

from

BURST (X) within (Y) Squares
This effect is an area including all squares (X) x (X) distance (Y) from a center square. Burst effects that are close attacks (such as “close burst 2”) always consider the caster to be the center of the effect. Bursts that are not close attacks (such as wizard’s “Scorching Burst” power) can be centered anywhere within the powers range, rather than centered on the caster.

to

BURST (X) within (Y) Squares
This effect is an area including all squares within (X) squares from a center square placed within an (Y) distance. Burst effects that are close attacks (such as “close burst 2”) always consider the caster to be the center of the effect. Bursts that are not close attacks (such as wizard’s “Scorching Burst” power) can be centered anywhere within the powers range, rather than centered on the caster.

these because a Burst*2 make a 5x5 square and not a 2x2 square

Verys Arkon · Apr 3, 2008

Updated to v1.3.1 April 3.08

I've made a quick minor update to v1.3.1 to deal with these issues.

• Reworded “burst”
• Removed second “Hit” line to Rangers “Split the Tree Power”
• Removed house-rule to Paladin Divine Challenge (see text Update History under v1.3 if you wish to use this temporary fix).
• Added Nature to Ranger’s class list.

D&D 4E 4E PrRC ~v2.7~ FINAL UPDATE May 29.08

FitzTheRuke

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Bayonet_Chris

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