Colors of magic (Help, please!)

This is actually part of a larger idea that I've been working on (something for a Window variant) but my imagination has been taxed lately due to physical illness and subsequent OT at work, trying to make up for missed days. The basic idea here is that different types of magic are associated with a given color and embody three aspects (an animal aspect, a chemical or element aspect, and an 'idea' aspect). Here's what I have so far:

Grey Magic - Wolves, Iron, Winter
Black Magic - Vermin, Bone, Shadow
White Magic - Falcons, Wind, Travel
Purple Magic - Spiders, Poison, Passion
Green Magic - Snakes, Emerald, Vision
Red Magic - Demons, Blood, Wrath
Yellow Magic - Insects, Plague, Pestilence

I'm happy with most of the above, with the exception of Red magic which seems to be. . . I dunno. . . lame. I've tried to stay away from more typical elements associated with certain types of good or evil magic in more mainstream fantasy games -- note, for example, that White magi don't have any innate ability to heal and Black magi don't have any direct ties to a force so awesome as Death (in fact, Black magic doesn't even have the most potential for 'evil' of all the magic types listed above). I need some input on other colors, as well. . . I'm stupified for good, evocative, examples of Blue Magic, for instance.

The 'idea' aspect above may need a bit more clarification -- it's less a rigid descriptor than it is a term that represents the general tendencies of a given magic type. To put things in perspective, Green Magic (with the exception of the Snakes bit) came directly from Krull and Purple Magic came directly from Thieve's World (wholesale). Examining those respective sources will give you an idea of what the 'idea' (or, perhaps, 'ideal') aspect is meant to represent. It's hard to explain in words at this point, really.

At any rate, any assistance that you can provide would be much appreciated.

Suggest you look up the Warhammer magic system and colours of magic. They did something very similar. From memory it was something like:

Amethyst: Death (not necromancy, and not inherently evil)
Jade: Water, plants, growth, the nurturing side of nature
Amber: Beasts, savagery, hunting, the violent side of nature
Bright: fire, destruction, wrath
Light: intellect, idealism, order
Grey: Concealment, confusion, wandering, winds
Cerulean: stars, astrology, divination
Gold: metal, solidity, wealth, earth

Plus there was Dark (the absence of all the above), which was demonry and the like, and High, which was a blending of all the above and was 'pure' magic that interacted with other magic and could replicate many of the other colours' effects.

Various gods (the Chaos gods, the Orc gods, the Skaven god, the Undead) had their own magic systems too, but in a D&D setting they're probably better represented by divine casters.

Just a note -- there's a series of PDFs doing colours of magic available at the ENWorld store that you might want to look at:

http://enworld.rpgnow.com/index.php?cPath=217&sort=xa&filter_id=32

2WS-Steve said:

Just a note -- there's a series of PDFs doing colours of magic available at the ENWorld store that you might want to look at:

http://enworld.rpgnow.com/index.php?cPath=217&sort=xa&filter_id=32

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While both of these systems (i.e., WHFRP and the ENWorld PDFs) do deal with magic as colors, they also do so in terms of rote-based magic and elaborate mechanical quantification. . . neither of which I have any interest in for this project (and both of which are at odds with The Window). It's not that these sources might not be useful (they may well be) but that they do things so fundamentally different than what I'm proposing that the cover price is a bit high given their applicability to the project at hand.

The sole pre-determined quantification that I want to implement is as stated in my OP -- an animal aspect, a mineral or element aspect, and an 'idea' (maybe 'theme' works better here) aspect. Everything else is to be adjudicated during actual play based on a proposed casting, with a casting character being able to propose pretty much anything related to the three aspects of his chosen magic skill school. It's more Ars Magic or Gemini with Color Magic, than it is anything else.

What I specifically need are suggestions for animal/element/idea triads, not examples of pre-existing systems that take a different approach to color-based magic

jdrakeh said:

Grey Magic - Wolves, Iron, Winter
Black Magic - Vermin, Bone, Shadow
White Magic - Falcons, Wind, Travel
Purple Magic - Spiders, Poison, Passion
Green Magic - Snakes, Emerald, Vision
Red Magic - Demons, Blood, Wrath
Yellow Magic - Insects, Plague, Pestilence

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Before I make any suggestions, I'd like to ask a few questions:

1) Have you already decided how many different colours you'd like to have (or which colours)?

This is the first question I'd ask myself, because it defines how broad the animal/element/idea aspects would have to be.

2) Would you like the colours to eventually cover the whole spectrums within each aspect or is it okay if no colour exists to cover a certain subset? Similarly, is it okay, if some groups are covered by several colours?

You've got some very specific groups in there (falcons) and very broad groups (insects). You've also got some examples which I wouldn't consider to belong to the same aspects: e.g., demons, plague. There's also already overlap between some groups (vermin/insects, plague/pestilence).

3) What is 'The Window'?

jdrakeh said:

..., they also do so in terms of rote-based magic and elaborate mechanical quantification. . . neither of which I have any interest in for this project (and both of which are at odds with The Window).
[...]
It's more Ars Magic or Gemini with Color Magic, than it is anything else.

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I don't know Gemini, but I know Ars Magica quite well. I'd actually consider it an example for a system with 'elaborate mechanical quantification' which you aren't interested in. So, what _are_ these aspects going to be used for? Defining valid targets/effects?

Jhaelen said:

1) Have you already decided how many different colours you'd like to have (or which colours)?

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No, this is the brainstorming phase. Such decisions are unnecessary at at this point

2) Would you like the colours to eventually cover the whole spectrums within each aspect or is it okay if no colour exists to cover a certain subset? Similarly, is it okay, if some groups are covered by several colours?

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Some overlap is okay, though I would prefer as little obvious overlap as possible (between types of magic by color, anyhow).

You've got some very specific groups in there (falcons) and very broad groups (insects). You've also got some examples which I wouldn't consider to belong to the same aspects: e.g., demons, plague. There's also already overlap between some groups (vermin/insects, plague/pestilence).

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Analyzing this through any lense other than 'cool' won't make a lot of sense. Granted, it's not supposed to make much sense through any other lense (i.e., this magic system isn't about juggling numbers or instituting mechanical balance and, in that regard, adheres closely to the precepts of magic as presented in The Window).

3) What is 'The Window'?

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It's a free game that you can download here (with the notoriously pretentious foreword attached) or here (as a PDF with all of the philosophy stripped out of it). I've designed some fan supplements for the Window (The Window Frame being the most often cited one) that are aimed at overcoming the huge-ish hurdle posed by some of that aforementioned foreword. Currently, I'm writing a PDA-format series of variants called Shards (which is essentially a highly house-ruled Window). This is what the magic bit is for.

I don't know Gemini, but I know Ars Magica quite well. I'd actually consider it an example for a system with 'elaborate mechanical quantification' which you aren't interested in. So, what _are_ these aspects going to be used for? Defining valid targets/effects?

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I should have clarifed that Ars was an example of a system not defined by rote learning. It's plenty mechanical. Gemini would be the mechancis 'light' example. Magic will be largely freeform with a casting character being able to propose any spell effect that deals with or involves the three aspects of their chosen skill/school -- and then they roll against a target to make it happen. I actively tried to avoid including aspects that would easily lend themselves to the implementation of "archetypical" (read "boring" in my living room) spell effects, with an eye toward creating a system of magic that is, well. . . magical (in terms of prompting the creation of new and unusual effects, anyhow).

Indigo - Panther, Silk, Deception
Blue - Ermine, Steel, Night

Asmor said:

Blue - Ermine, Steel, Night

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People at other forums kept doing the Fish/Water/Ocean thing (as did I, embarassingly enough). Fish and water are great, though too obvious. Your insight here makes me want to create my own stealthy Thief of Stars who has mastered the sacred arts of Blue Magic whilst becoming one with the Heavenly Void. Rock on, friend Asmor, rock on!

humble minion said:

Suggest you look up the Warhammer magic system and colours of magic. They did something very similar. From memory it was something like:

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You are very close and differences are probably semantic. I'll go through the list anyway for clarity.

Hysh, the White Wind. Light wizards command forces of light, truth, healing and purity.
Azyr, the Blue Wind. Celestial wizards deal with storms, winds, divination and the stars.
Chamon, the Yellow Wind. Gold wizards value logic, creation, investigation and the pursuit of alchemy.
Ghyran, the Green Wind. Jade wizards are also known as druids to the common folk and weave arts of healing and the power of life.
Ghur, the Brown Wind. Amber wizards can change their bodies and command the beasts of the wild.
Aqshy, the Red Wind. Bright wizards are well known for their use of fire magics.
Ulgu, the Grey Wind. Grey wizards deal in shadows, illusions and deception.
Shyish, the Purple Wind. Amethyst wizards are focused on the natural endings of all things.

Plus there was Dark (the absence of all the above), which was demonry and the like, and High, which was a blending of all the above and was 'pure' magic that interacted with other magic and could replicate many of the other colours' effects.

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Dark and High are both blending of many winds of magic at once. Dark magic would be like the Dark Side of the force where power is achieved through raw will, absolute passion and risks terrible corruption. High magic would be like the so called "light side" which depends on tranquility, focus and patience. The practice of one pretty much precludes the other since they are based on completely different fundamental principles.

Humans don't have to worry about High magic though. The greatest of human wizards have only managed to master the basics of one wind. Only elves have the time to master all of them.

jdrakeh said:

People at other forums kept doing the Fish/Water/Ocean thing (as did I, embarassingly enough). Fish and water are great, though too obvious. Your insight here makes me want to create my own stealthy Thief of Stars who has mastered the sacred arts of Blue Magic whilst becoming one with the Heavenly Void. Rock on, friend Asmor, rock on!

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I aim to please.

Brown - Bear, Leather, Body/Physical power
Orange - Tiger, Shadow, The hunt

Maybe have orange's element be blood instead... <shrug> Just seems weird not to have blood be red to me.