Help me build a better Beguiler

CCH_LLC · Mar 22, 2008

Apologies in advance if this is a duplicate of other threads, but I am recently back to D&D and finding myself a bit overwhelmed by all the information. I am pretty familiar with the D20 system and if you check my history you will see I have asked similar questions to this for other classes, but that was a while ago and since then I have been playing rifts don't really know where to start when 3.5 optimization is concerned.

So here is my challenge to the forum prodigies, I am going to join a Temple of Elemental Evil campaign, and I want to build a character that is effective in social situations, and in encounters is more of a battle field controller then someone who deals damage himself. I have seen the Beguiler handbook here and while I can see it is very well written and comprehensive, it is way more then I can really digest. Also all of the builds go up to 20, and I will just be level 5. I have already rolled stats and lucked out with a 17, 15, 14, 14, 13, 12 which is phenomenal to be honest (we get to reroll ones)and I think I have a lot of potential with that.

All wizards books are available, but please cite your sources. Also I don't really want to dip into any other classes, but if it does something cool then by all means suggest it. Also I am not really interested in being a replacement rogue, I would really prefer to be a face for the party/sneaky bastard/battlefield controller. Basically something I can get points for being clever and manipulated in battle and out of it.

Nifft · Mar 22, 2008

Nice stats!

You want a high Intelligence, of course, both for skills and spellcasting. I'd go with:
Str: 12
Dex: 14
Con: 15
Int: 17
Wis: 13
Cha: 14

Your biggest decision is: do you want to spend your first Advanced Learning on shadow conjuration, or heroism? The first is a wonderfully flexible attack spell, the second is a good buff if your group doesn't have a Bard.

If you want shadow conjuration, you'll have to take one level of a PrC before your 7th level of Beguiler. Mindbender (C.Arc) is a nice & easy dip for exactly one level.

IMHO Unsettling Enchantment (C.Mage) is the only non-obvious feat you should seriously consider.

Cheers, -- N

Darth Vyce · Mar 22, 2008

Another important feat for a beguiler is the Combat Charm feat found in the Dragon Magazine Compendium. This will assist you in charming critters during combat. Here is a beguiler build that I helped a friend put together:

Sidewinder Monk 2/Beguiler 18 (or just Beguiler 20)

Feats

Persuasive (b)
Imp Feint (b)
Practised Caster
Imp Initiative
Combat Charm
Spl Focus[Ench]
Gtr Spl Focus[Ench]
Mobile Spellcasting
Song of the Dead (Dragon 312)*

* Song of the Dead is a metamagic feat which allows enchantments to effect undead.

Overall it was pretty solid as he could use feint as a free action which in turn activated his cloaked casting ability.

szilard · Mar 22, 2008

A straightforward Beguiler can be remarkably effective. The most important thing is to know your spell list inside and out.

In terms of bonus spells, Shadow Conjuration is your best bet - if you can figure out how to get it. Heroism isn't a bad spell, but it won't really expand your options - you'll already have Haste.

In terms of feats, don't spend them on skill-boosting things: you'll have a huge number of skill points. Beguilers already have an advantage in spell DCs - boosting that even more will make your 'save negates' spells more useful. Seriously consider some of the reserve feats in Complete Mage. As a spontaneous caster, they provide you with a lot of flexibility.

Combat Expertise and Improved Feint look good, but think about how often you'll actually be in melee before you take them.

-Stuart

Corsair · Mar 22, 2008

If you want versatility, Shadowcraft Mage (using the aforementioned Mindbender dip to delay the Advanced Learning by one level) is an excellent addition, giving you all those neat blasty spells you didn't already have.

Haffrung Helleyes · Mar 22, 2008

I wouldn't recommend Combat Expertise or Improved Feint, I think you won't be in melee enough for it to be worthwhile.

I would focus your feats on upping your spell DCs, and (at higher levels) being better at beating SR.

The only prestige class I would consider is a 1-level dip in Mindbender to delay your 2nd Advanced Learning pick , and pick up Telepathy. Go Straight Beguiler the rest of the way.

Ken

Darth Vyce · Mar 22, 2008

I think Imp Feint is important as it allows a beguiler to trigger their cloaked casting ability more often. Using the following trick allows you to stay out of melee ... hopefully:

Expeditious Retreat + Mobile Casting + Feint (as a free action w/Imp Feint) = awesome

This way you will have a speed of around 60'. Mobile Casting allows you to cast a spell & move your speed as a standard action (with a DC 20 Concentration Check). So, you could move toward an enemy, feint (free action), then make a Concentration Check, cast your spell, and move away again. Only problem with this is that the concentration check is somewhat high.

eamon · Mar 22, 2008

Plain, straight beguiler 20 works fine, and if you don't enjoy sifting through the beguiler handbook, you're probably not better off building some complex build, which won't improve your character much.

Get that Int as high as possible.
Choose your Advanced learning's wisely, they can really define your character, and you don't get many of em. Shadow conjuration and eventually greater shadow conjuration are great to have.
You have a lot of skillpoints, so you can afford to stick a few into odd skills that are character-defining. On the other hand, you have very few feats, so be sure to use those to support your strengths: casting (illusion+enchantment) spells.
If you're playing level 10+, then use magic device becomes quite attractive for all the versatile wands available (and perhaps a runestaff), especially if your party is missing a core spellcasting class.

What kind of level range do you have in mind?

eamon · Mar 22, 2008

Darth Vyce said:
Expeditious Retreat + Mobile Casting + Feint (as a free action w/Imp Feint) = awesome

Where's Mobile casting from?

moritheil · Mar 22, 2008

Nifft's distribution is good.

I would suggest taking Mindbender at 6, as it is the only immediately obvious PrC dip for a beguiler (the rest involve specialization or specific ideas of what you want to do, but Mindbender is good no matter what.) Beguiler X/Mindbender 1 is great stuff.

In order to get mindbender you have to have points invested in certain social skills. In return for that and for the loss of 1 BAB and a few skill points, you get telepathy 100' and delay your 2nd advanced learning, which is good as it enables you to get a higher level spell.

Be aware that you will not be a blaster mage, which is the one thing that you might miss if you're used to playing sorcerers. You are instead a supreme controller.