Video Games Extra Cohort Feat? - Page 2




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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shin Okada
    I cannot find a rule text specifically say so. In my understanding, a PC can take the same feat twice or more but that is usually meaningless.
    You are claiming that every feat has a line at the end which says, "Special: This feat may be taken multiple times. Its effects stack."

    Quote Originally Posted by Shin Okada
    This entry is about Cohorts, not other type of Friends and allied characters. This is the same entry where xp and treasure share of a cohort is described.

    So you guys are saying that there are generic "cohorts" by the rule, who does not need Leadership or similar feat?
    There's no contradiction. You can have as many Cohorts as you want!

    One at a time.

    Cheers, -- N

 

  • #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by krupintupple
    hmm. i'm the DM of my campaign and I think that's pretty fair - i've never liked 3e followers as it leaves me dealing with a huge horde of nobodies and i feel it really bogs the game down. i rule that leadership only brings a single cohort. does anyone have any experience with the above and how it plays out in the game?

    Well, IMHO there maybe two things you would better put in your mind before allowing it.

    1. It depends on each DMs if he actually organize followers, too.
    In many playgroup, only the cohort is used and followers are ignored or just used abstractly. And, reading various "special cohort" type feat such as Dragon Cohort, many of the writers in WotC are also forgetting about the very existence of followers, or at least thinking followers to be just a background fluff.

    2. There is Improved Cohort feat in Heroes of Battle.
    This is a feat which allow a PC to gain a level higher cohort. So basically, +1 level cohort is thought to be worth 2 feats.
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  • #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by krupintupple
    hmm. i'm the DM of my campaign and I think that's pretty fair - i've never liked 3e followers as it leaves me dealing with a huge horde of nobodies and i feel it really bogs the game down. i rule that leadership only brings a single cohort. does anyone have any experience with the above and how it plays out in the game?
    IMHO bad idea. Cohorts at PC level -2 are already plenty strong.

    Followers are meant to stay back at the castle and not join in combat -- the Cohort is specifically mentioned as adventuring with you, while the followers are not.

    Cheers, -- N

  • #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft
    You are claiming that every feat has a line at the end which says, "Special: This feat may be taken multiple times. Its effects stack."
    No, what I am saying is that the RAW does not prevent you from taking the same feat twice or more, regardless of if it has any meaning.

    Benefit: What the feat enables the character ("you" in the feat description) to do. If a character has the same feat more than once, its benefits do not stack unless indicated otherwise in the description. In general, having a feat twice is the same as having it once.
    At least, it is untrue that a character can't has same feat twice or more. It depends on each feats if that has any meaning or not. And cohorts and followers are neither bonuses nor modifications and thus, beyond stacking rule.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shin Okada
    No, what I am saying is that the RAW does not prevent you from taking the same feat twice or more, regardless of if it has any meaning.
    You can have a feat twice without taking a feat twice. Ranger virtual feats, for example, are thus specified to overlap with (and not stack with) real feats. So you could not take the Archery path, the feats Point Blank Shot and Rapid shot, and then expect the effects to grant you two extra attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shin Okada
    At least, it is untrue that a character can't has same feat twice or more. It depends on each feats if that has any meaning or not. And cohorts and followers are neither bonuses nor modifications and thus, beyond stacking rule.
    The word used in your quote is "benefit", not "bonus" or "modification". A Cohort's service most certainly is a benefit of the Leadership feat.

    By your own reasoning, even if you were allowed to take Leadership twice (which I do not concede), you'd get the benefit of Leadership once.

    Cheers, -- N

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft
    You can have a feat twice without taking a feat twice. Ranger virtual feats, for example, are thus specified to overlap with (and not stack with) real feats. So you could not take the Archery path, the feats Point Blank Shot and Rapid shot, and then expect the effects to grant you two extra attacks.
    That is not related at all to this topic. The point is, there seems to be no rule text which says a character CANNOT take the same feat twice.

    The word used in your quote is "benefit", not "bonus" or "modification". A Cohort's service most certainly is a benefit of the Leadership feat.

    By your own reasoning, even if you were allowed to take Leadership twice (which I do not concede), you'd get the benefit of Leadership once.
    But the PHB version of Leadership feat is a little bit different from SRD one. The "special" line does not describe the effect fully and says,

    (the Dungeon Master's Guide has more information on cohorts and followers).
    And DMG says a character can have more than 1 cohorts.

    Leadership feat is, indeed, a very special feat which should not be just selected and allowed. But if a DM (and other players) think it to be appropriate, there is no harm letting a PC take Leadership feat twice and get 2 cohorts (and more followers).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shin Okada
    .... But if a DM (and other players) think it to be appropriate, there is no harm letting a PC take Leadership feat twice and get 2 cohorts (and more followers).
    Or in allowing it to be taken once for multiple cohorts? No where does it state (PHB or DMG) that you must take another feat to gain those elusive additional cohorts... right?

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  • #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shin Okada
    No, what I am saying is that the RAW does not prevent you from taking the same feat twice or more, regardless of if it has any meaning.
    True



    At least, it is untrue that a character can't has same feat twice or more. It depends on each feats if that has any meaning or not. And cohorts and followers are neither bonuses nor modifications and thus, beyond stacking rule.

    False.

    The only things addressed specificaly in relation to "stacking" are "Stacking effects" (as in spells and "stacking bonuses" (as in well bonus types and suc).

    Stacking benefits are not specifically addressed but the the "stacking" is handled in these two specifics allows a way of seeing what the meaning of the term in D&D is, or you (The generic you not the specific one) could just try to look it up in a dictionary.

    The meaning is clear in regard to feats:


    . . .its benefits do not stack unless indicated otherwise in the description. In general, having a feat twice is the same as having it once.
    The way stacking is meant in D&D based on the two specific examples (PHB and DMG) are that they do not provide a cumulative benefit.

    Leadership provides 1 cohort - that is its main benefit (not counting followers).

    Taking it twice does not provide a cumulative benefit - that is you do not receive 2 cohorts.

    The fact that under feats it says " In general having the feat twice is the same as having it once" basically sums it up to emphasize that the effects (or benefits) are not cumulative unless it says otherwise in a specific feat's description.
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    Quote Originally Posted by irdeggman
    The fact that under feats it says " In general having the feat twice is the same as having it once" basically sums it up to emphasize that the effects (or benefits) are not cumulative unless it says otherwise in a specific feat's description.
    But DMG actually says a character can have multiple cohort.

    Maybe, strictly by RAW, Drowbane's interpretation is the right answer. Actually, the leadership feat (DMG P.106) does not strictly says that a PC can attract "one" cohort. And DMG P.104 says "There are no limitations to the number of cohort who can be employed by a character."
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  • #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shin Okada
    But DMG actually says a character can have multiple cohort.
    At the same time? No, I didn't think so.

    Cheers, -- N

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