D&D 4E Wherefore 4E Spurn Iconics?

In all seriousness, I remember there being a fairly substantial thread on the fate of Iconics in 4e many months ago on the WotC 4e boards. There were plenty of voices both for and against them, along with many different ideas for implementation. Personally, while I was not a big fan on the particular Iconics we had, I fully support the idea of having Iconics in general.

malcolm_n said:

Half-orc

Long have the barbaric humans of the hinterlands comingled their weaker, but more apt race with the might of the orcs. Having bred a race true and strong, the clans both human and orc look on their children with respect for the heritage they've earned.

Racial traits
• You gain a +2 to your Strength and Wisdom scores.
• You can move 6 squares in one move action.
• You can move 7 squares when charging.
• You gain a +5 bonus to saves vs. ongoing damage.
• You gain a +2 to Intimidate and Nature checks.
• You know Orcish in addition to any other languages.
• You may select human and orc feats.

Half-orc racial power
You just made a big mistake, little man.
Blood for Blood
When bloodied the first time in an encounter, you can make an immediate basic attack. This attack can be in melee or at range and does 2[w] + Str or Wis damage.

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Ah man that is a great racial write-up. No offense to you Krusk, but since my introduction to D&D (3.5, I'm a newb allright) I've always been a bit ambivalent about the Half-Orcs. Too shoehorned into a specific role for my liking (not to mention the squicky fluff). Then again, this stat block is on par with the ones we've seen for the Tiefling and Elf in terms of compelling, flavorful power. It's very tempting to roll up an ass-whooping Warlord/Warrior Half-Orc now... good job Malcolm_N.

Although I will say that +5 to ongoing damage saves is a bit too broad of a bonus, it seems like. If Eladrin get a +5 save to Enchantment spells only, and Dwarves get theirs to Poisons only, I should think that the Half-Orc probably ought to have a slightly narrower field of Save expertise to stay balanced. I'm not sure exactly how to help that though... maybe their is another keyword out there that will be about similarly common to the two other Keyword examples we've seen and will be a flavorful addition to the Half-Orc's vaunted Stamina and ability to shrug off harm.

Oh, and to answer the original question, while you will have Half-Orc stats on DDi at the earliest post-4e launch, when Forgotten Realms is updated I am sure you will get your shot at a real Racial writeup with Feats and all the necessary fixin's. And maybe Forgotten Realms will have some job openings for iconics while they're at it..... :-D

Dark080matter said:

Although I will say that +5 to ongoing damage saves is a bit too broad of a bonus, it seems like. If Eladrin get a +5 save to Enchantment spells only, and Dwarves get theirs to Poisons only, I should think that the Half-Orc probably ought to have a slightly narrower field of Save expertise to stay balanced. I'm not sure exactly how to help that though... maybe their is another keyword out there that will be about similarly common to the two other Keyword examples we've seen and will be a flavorful addition to the Half-Orc's vaunted Stamina and ability to shrug off harm.

D

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Ah-ha, but it's not broad at all. It's a keyword like poison and enchantment... Ongoing is specificly just taht. you take damage and no other effect. The understanding i have of ongoing damage is this: It's something you must either grin and bear or do something about. Like fire damage, you roll on the ground; You do what you can; and half-orcs are just better at figuring out the natural remedies to what causes ongoing damage. They can't stop poison or Enchantments, they're just survivalists by nature.

To make them more specific how about, when you would save against ongoing damage from a natural source, you get +5?

malcolm_n said:

They can't stop poison or Enchantments, they're just survivalists by nature.

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Have we seen any poisons? Aren't they supposed to do ongoing damage, too?

I'd say if the category is broader, just reduce the bonus to +2

Maximillian said:

Have we seen any poisons? Aren't they supposed to do ongoing damage, too?

I'd say if the category is broader, just reduce the bonus to +2

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But there's a specific resistance to poison. this would exclude that by nature of not saying poison (4e is kinda cool like that).

I like it though. +2 to ongoing damage in general; and it's ~1/2 the +5 of others; that'd be cue to give the full orc (monster) the +5
[/stealthread]

malcolm_n said:

But there's a specific resistance to poison. this would exclude that by nature of not saying poison (4e is kinda cool like that).

I like it though. +2 to ongoing damage in general; and it's ~1/2 the +5 of others; that'd be cue to give the full orc (monster) the +5
[/stealthread]

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I dunno. I'd imagine that poison is probably listed as 'ongoing poison 5', just like acid is 'ongoing acid 5'. If it is, that means that Krusk's resistance to ongoing damage either applies to all ongoing damage (acid, poison, fire, etc.) or, as you seem to be interpreting it, only ongoing damage that does not have a specific type. Given that we don't know how common that will be, it still might be too broadly applicable a bonus. Perhaps the bonus could be lowered, or perhaps it's only functional when Krusk is bloodied.

Zelgadas said:

I'd imagine that poison is probably listed as 'ongoing poison 5', just like acid is 'ongoing acid 5'. If it is, that means that Krusk's resistance to ongoing damage either applies to all ongoing damage (acid, poison, fire, etc.) or, as you seem to be interpreting it, only ongoing damage that does not have a specific type.

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This is about what I expect to see. Unless poison still does ability damage, which I think has been verified as untrue. Untyped ongoing damage only might not be too powerful, but might not apply to much at all...

Maximillian said:

This is about what I expect to see. Unless poison still does ability damage, which I think has been verified as untrue. Untyped ongoing damage only might not be too powerful, but might not apply to much at all...

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I changed it to a +2 to any ongoing damage instead of +5 to anything specific. Should be more balanced.

Krusk, sorry about taking over, was just trying to cheer you up with some new tricks. You have a place in my campaign any time.